Who is Gog?

[Theognome]

Tomorrow's family devotion takes us through Ezekiel 38, and I'm unsure how to treat Gog.

Meshech and Tubal were northern tribes in the region of modern Turkey according to Josephus, but no clear identity is given for Gog. Also, based on the invasion described in chapters 38 and 39, I'm not certain that Gog was a literal contemporary ruler during Ezekiel's time, nor do I know of any ruler of that name that threatened Israel to the extend spoken of in Ezekiel 38 and 39 during any point of her history.

At the moment, I'm leaning towards considering Gog as the Greek empire for two reasons. First, chapter 37 does refer to restoration of the people in the land and the rebuilding of the temple- which did occur in the fifth century BC under Zerubbabel (Yes, Ch.37 also speaks to the resurrection and the work of Christ, too). When the Greeks invaded, there are many similarities between what is described in Chapters 38 and 39 and the historical record- right through to the Maccabean era. The second reason is that the Roman conquest ended with Jerusalem's Destruction- not at all in line with the two Chapters.

Does anyone have any thoughts or references they can offer to the question of 'Who is Gog'?

 

[Whitefield]

Josephus Antiquities I.6.1

"Magog founded those that from him were named Magogites, but who are by the Greeks called Scythians."

and the Sythians were a very nasty bunch.

 

[Theognome]

Josephus Antiquities I.6.1

"Magog founded those that from him were named Magogites, but who are by the Greeks called Scythians."

and the Sythians were a very nasty bunch.

Aye, I read Joe's missive on the grandchildren of Noah, but it still doesn't answer the question of Gog. Ezekiel doesn't claim that Gog is the leader of Magog, but rather that Gog's from that area. Ezekiel states that Gog is a prince of Rosh, Tubal and Meshech. I didn't find anything in Josephus concerning Rosh, and the other two are mentioned as you of course have shown. Also, Scythian lands did include parts of Macedonia.

The other problem is that the Scythians never made war against Israel. They were attacked by Darius late in the sixth century BC, but never ventured themselves far enough south to be a threat to the Hebrew lands.

Theognome

 

[toddpedlar]

Don't you know Gog is RUSSIA? Come on, man, this is basic proffessseee!

 

[Theognome]

Don't you know Gog is RUSSIA? Come on, man, this is basic proffessseee!

*SLAP* Doooooh!

Yeah, I saw that somewhere... claiming that it's in the Hebrew. Well, it ain't in my Interlinear.

Theognome

 

[Backwoods Presbyterian]

I thought Gog was Iran now?

 

[Theognome]

I thought Gog was Iran now?

Could be... Iran does seem to encapsulate the four corners of the earth...


Theognome

 

[Richard King]

Well it was always Rooskies in my old denomination. We heard about it so much that I can say with all certainty that:

Not trying to embarrass you or anything but I think you spelled it backwards.

 

[Theognome]

Well it was always Rooskies in my old denomination. We heard about it so much that I can say with all certainty that:

Not trying to embarrass you or anything but I think you spelled it backwards.

Indeed. I'll spell goG properly next time.

The idea of it being Russia seems outlandish to me. I looked up the reasoning, and the primary claim seems to be that the Hebrew word 'Rosh' (translated as Prince in V.2) means 'Russia'. This is absurd, since the word Russia didn't exist in Ezekiel's time. Also, some try to identify Meshech and Tubal as Moscow and Tobolsk- equally absurd since they are clearly spoken of in Ezekiel as being in the land of Magog, which was in Asia Minor.

Theognome

 

[MW]

Patrick Fairbairn's commentary provides the idealist view. I have to agree with him that a literal referent cannot harmonise all the elements of the prophecy.

 

[TimV]

This is absurd, since the word Russia didn't exist in Ezekiel's time.

No, that wouldn't matter, since many peoples have changed country names and location since Ezekiel. There wasn't any Iran in Ezekiel's time, since it was 60 years after Ezekiel was written before Cyrus defeated Babylon and moved onto the world stage. There was no Morocco in his time, no Turkey etc...

Scythian was a generic name for a large group of people during the time of Josephus, and modern Slavs probably come from this group, so Russia could very well be meant, if indeed Gog meant Scythians. The problem of course is setting a time when the events took place or will take place.

 

[CovenantalBaptist]

Tomorrow's family devotion takes us through , and I'm unsure how to treat Gog.

First, brother, as a Pastor I would like to just say how it warms and delights my heart that you are planning your family worship ahead of time. May the Lord bless you as you continue to diligently study to shepherd your family in the Gospel.

To offer my personal opinion: I would agree with brother Winzer that a literal referent is not clear in Scripture. As G.K. Beale in his commentary on Revelation indicates, Ezekiel distinguishes Gog and Magog from the other nations of the earth who rally with them (38:2-7, 15, 22; 29:4) but in Rev. 20:8 (the Old Testament in the New revealed) it would appear that the nations are universalized in opposition to "Israel". See Beale NIGTC 1022 ff.

I think the fundamental point in explicating this aspect of Gog's identity to the family would be along the lines of no matter how fearsome the opposition, no matter how mighty man's empires may be/have been, God preserved/preserves His remnant and will judge those who oppose Him.

 

[Theognome]

Tomorrow's family devotion takes us through , and I'm unsure how to treat Gog.

First, brother, as a Pastor I would like to just say how it warms and delights my heart that you are planning your family worship ahead of time. May the Lord bless you as you continue to diligently study to shepherd your family in the Gospel.

To offer my personal opinion: I would agree with brother Winzer that a literal referent is not clear in Scripture. As G.K. Beale in his commentary on Revelation indicates, Ezekiel distinguishes Gog and Magog from the other nations of the earth who rally with them (38:2-7, 15, 22; 29:4) but in Rev. 20:8 (the Old Testament in the New revealed) it would appear that the nations are universalized in opposition to "Israel". See Beale NIGTC 1022 ff.

I think the fundamental point in explicating this aspect of Gog's identity to the family would be along the lines of no matter how fearsome the opposition, no matter how mighty man's empires may be/have been, God preserved/preserves His remnant and will judge those who oppose Him.

The preservation of His remnant follows naturally from the two preceeding chapters, and is of course the main thrust of the study. The first 20 chapters or so spend so much ink on Israel's judgment that chapters 36 and 37 are very much a sigh of relief. 38 and 39 naturally (and 35 to some extent, with the judgment of Edom) show how the Lord fulfills His promise to His chosen.

As I mentioned above, I do not, at this point, consider Gog to be a specific literal person, though I'm still leaning towards showing the possibility of the Greek empire as being part of its fulfillment. I don't think that 'dating' the event is too difficult if we assume that chapter 38 continues the context from the preceeding chapter- which clearly speaks of the return of the exiles and the coming(s) of Christ. Since the events as described didn't happen during His incarnation, that would leave the 2nd coming or the post-exillic period. Revelation treats Gog in the eschatalogical sense, and I feel that, although Ezekiel could be also doing so, is probably not.

Either way, we'll have a fun study.

Theognome

 

[MOSES]

Gary DeMar has a book out on Ezekiel 38 and Gog. I have not read it but I know he ties Ezekiel 38 to events that are found in the book of Esther. Very interesting, in my opinion. The book can be found at:

American Vision: A Biblical Worldview Ministry

 

[Zenas]

Gog is the prince named in Ezekiel 38.

Next question.

 

[Spinningplates2]

Zechariah 12 and the "Esther Connection"

Here is a link about the book mentioned above. I loved this track and highly recommend it. It connects Easter to Zech.12 and would love to see a discussion about this topic.