YWAM hmmm...

[dog8food]

So I got myself into a debacle as I often do, but these experiences often turn into a learning/growing experience.

I recently took a working holiday to Australia. I decided to serve with YWAM Melbourne for a while before I start working (for pay). I've definitely heard mixed things about YWAM and living among this community for over a week, I've become very uncomfortable.

They're currently running a Mission Adventure program for the youth so it's very busy here at base. As for my concerns, firstly their view of Christianity tends to be highly spiritualized. They hear God "speak" through very odd mediums--such as last night when a few leaders apparently felt moved to go to the restroom and found a note from God in the toilet that read "Pray for church." Also the worship sessions involve these kids with arms around each other, falling down, and "speaking in tongues." The music and media they consume is a whole other issue...

As you can imagine I'm quite uncomfortable here. It's fine when I'm working (I'm a prep chef in the kitchen) but I seclude myself otherwise (they do have some nice reformation theology books available). I'm kinda stuck here for now until February. Please pray for me, haha. Pray for YWAM.

 

[Pergamum]

Wow, who recommended them to you. A very "loosey-goosey" group as someone warned me when I was younger. And that they are, indeed!

 

[jambo]

I had dealings with YWAM as a late teen and would not be keen on them at all. If you are uncomfortable then move on, although February is not a long way away. If you have committed yourself to February then stick it out, move on and put it all down to experience.

 

[catechumen]

If you are at all free on the Lord's Day, you are most welcome to worship with us at South Yarra Presbyterian Church. We might be able to provide you with some spiritual respite! South Yarra is only a fifteen minute tram ride from the city centre, or alternatively we could arrange someone to pick you up. You can check out our website at South Yarra Presbyterian Church |.

It is a shame to be having to spend your time in Melbourne under such circumstances.

 

[Zach]

Praying for you, brother.

 

[Berean]

Praying for you. Why not leave some Reformed tracts in that bathroom?

 

[Somerset]

So the God who spoke via the mouths of the great prophets is now leaving notes in toilets. I don't know whether I should be laughing or crying.

 

[Unoriginalname]

So the God who spoke via the mouths of the great prophets is now leaving notes in toilets

I chuckled when you put it that way. Juan-diego you will be in my prayers

 

[J. Dean]

I believe YWAM has its roots in pentecostalism. Be careful with this. I and others here can tell you that pentecostals are very reliant upon the "move of the Spirit" and often to an erroneous degree.

 

[seajayrice]

I believe YWAM has its roots in pentecostalism. Be careful with this. I and others here can tell you that pentecostals are very reliant upon the "move of the Spirit" and often to an erroneous degree.

Move of the spirit, notes in the bathroom; can this thread be teed up any higher? Hold me back!

 

[Andres]

If you are at all free on the Lord's Day, you are most welcome to worship with us at South Yarra Presbyterian Church. We might be able to provide you with some spiritual respite! South Yarra is only a fifteen minute tram ride from the city centre, or alternatively we could arrange someone to pick you up. You can check out our website at South Yarra Presbyterian Church |.

Jump on this offer!! Prayers for you brother.

 

[Pergamum]

Here are some links about YWAM's errors.

The New Missiology—Keep Your Own Religion, Just Add Jesus

Several years ago YWAM proposed a new kind of pseudo-mission endeavor in which YWAM missionaries would allegedly preach Muslims the “gospel” and a supposed great harvest would result. The idea was that a Muslim who was persuaded to believe the gospel would be encouraged to make a profession, albeit privately to avoid persecution. This new “convert” was then informed that they could continue regular mosque attendance, bowing in prayer to Allah, and Quranic reading and still be considered born again. They would then be referred to as “Messianic Muslims”. Make no mistake, they were still Muslims but had claimed some level of “belief” in Jesus Christ. As long as when they continued their “cultural” expressions of worship to Allah but inside actually prayed to Jesus Christ, they were considered saved.

Spiritual Research Network, Inc - False Teaching Abounds Within Youth With A Mission


...::: Power To Stand --- YWAM Concerns :::...


YWAM: The Facts About Their Headlong Dive Into Apostasy

YWAM helped organize the World Christian Gathering On Indigenous People in HI in October. YWAM promoted this event on KLHT in Honolulu. The people who were interviewed by YWAM in promotion of this gathering promote human tradition and culture, when Apostles like Paul clearly stopped promoting human culture when they were born again, instead living for what Jesus Christ called them to do.

Philippians 3:7-8 But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ.
Yet promoting indigenous culture is the main focus of this movement, as well as getting people into the New Apostolic Reformation. They also pray to false gods in the name of the one true Triune God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, YHWH. Richard Twiss said on 700 Club with Gordon Robertson agreeing that the Great Spirit of the Indians is the same as the Holy Spirit, and promotes praying to Indian gods whose names they have changed to Creator, Son and Holy Spirit. Leon Siu and Daniel Kikawa pray to the bird god "Io" and call him Jehovah. Terry LeBlanc endorses the same practices, and many including Richard Twiss are directly linked to the New Apostolic Reformation along with YWAM. This is syncretism to the ultimate degree, and is no different than what the Catholics did when they came to the islands and changed the names of demonic gods into the names of saints. The island people were clearly animistic before the gospel arrived in the islands--worshipping rocks, trees, animals and fish--but YWAM endorsed the view of the First Nations representatives that God had already revealed Himself and His salvation plan and was already available prior to missionaries coming to the islands and messing up their cultures. YWAM also aired a patently stilted and erroneous view of island mission history on the program that is still available on the CCH site.

Advice to potential YWAM recruits and Pastors


I have met several YWAMrs and they seemed very theologically shallow, Arminian and Charismatic.

 

[Rich Koster]

Here are some links about YWAM's errors.

The New Missiology—Keep Your Own Religion, Just Add Jesus

Several years ago YWAM proposed a new kind of pseudo-mission endeavor in which YWAM missionaries would allegedly preach Muslims the “gospel” and a supposed great harvest would result. The idea was that a Muslim who was persuaded to believe the gospel would be encouraged to make a profession, albeit privately to avoid persecution. This new “convert” was then informed that they could continue regular mosque attendance, bowing in prayer to Allah, and Quranic reading and still be considered born again. They would then be referred to as “Messianic Muslims”. Make no mistake, they were still Muslims but had claimed some level of “belief” in Jesus Christ. As long as when they continued their “cultural” expressions of worship to Allah but inside actually prayed to Jesus Christ, they were considered saved.

Spiritual Research Network, Inc - False Teaching Abounds Within Youth With A Mission


...::: Power To Stand --- YWAM Concerns :::...


YWAM: The Facts About Their Headlong Dive Into Apostasy

YWAM helped organize the World Christian Gathering On Indigenous People in HI in October. YWAM promoted this event on KLHT in Honolulu. The people who were interviewed by YWAM in promotion of this gathering promote human tradition and culture, when Apostles like Paul clearly stopped promoting human culture when they were born again, instead living for what Jesus Christ called them to do.

Philippians 3:7-8 But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ.
Yet promoting indigenous culture is the main focus of this movement, as well as getting people into the New Apostolic Reformation. They also pray to false gods in the name of the one true Triune God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, YHWH. Richard Twiss said on 700 Club with Gordon Robertson agreeing that the Great Spirit of the Indians is the same as the Holy Spirit, and promotes praying to Indian gods whose names they have changed to Creator, Son and Holy Spirit. Leon Siu and Daniel Kikawa pray to the bird god "Io" and call him Jehovah. Terry LeBlanc endorses the same practices, and many including Richard Twiss are directly linked to the New Apostolic Reformation along with YWAM. This is syncretism to the ultimate degree, and is no different than what the Catholics did when they came to the islands and changed the names of demonic gods into the names of saints. The island people were clearly animistic before the gospel arrived in the islands--worshipping rocks, trees, animals and fish--but YWAM endorsed the view of the First Nations representatives that God had already revealed Himself and His salvation plan and was already available prior to missionaries coming to the islands and messing up their cultures. YWAM also aired a patently stilted and erroneous view of island mission history on the program that is still available on the CCH site.

Advice to potential YWAM recruits and Pastors


I have met several YWAMrs and they seemed very theologically shallow, Arminian and Charismatic.

I'd avoid YWAM. They promote the indigenous missionary syncretism, championed by the NAR, as mentioned above.

 

[steadfast7]

YWAM's Pentecostalism will be the least of your worries. Its Open Theism will be the kicker, which is widespread in YWAM now and most definitely in Melbourne's base. Their base leader came to speak on the character of God when I was YWAMer 10 years ago and taught us that God does not know and has not ordained the future.

I encourage you to press this issue with them and dialogue lovingly about it. It is a horrendous heresy that must be challenged with the truth. This is a battle worth fighting.

 

[Pergamum]

This sounds harsh, but if I had the power, for the sake of the Glory of Christ and the integrity of world missions, I would strive to send some of these jokers home who come out with YWAM. I almost believe that by helping YWAM you might be participating in something that would hurt rather than help the cause of Christ. This depends on location and who you are working with. It sounds really bad but I have prayed for either the conversion of the missionary, or the failure of several western missinaries I have met. One was a YWAMr.

 

[dog8food]

Thank you all for your prayers and insights. I agree with what you all have to say. Pergamum, you're absolutely right about a movement departing so far from basic Christian theology that it's almost best they collapse completely lest they confuse the masses concerning Christ.

Well, this is definitely a learning experience for me, and I thank God that this has occurred further along in my growth so that I have no inclination to accept these zany practices as Christianity.

Thank you for your offer, Ben. I would definitely like to worship at your church, though I still need to get comfortable with public transport around here. Possibly next weekend.

 

[Pergamum]

Juan-Diego,

If you are still in Australia and can visit, or if you plan on doing another summer short term missions assignment, let me know and I can arrange something where you can be with like-minded people. You won't find any notes from God in our toilets.

 

[catechumen]

It would be great to see you Juan Diego. I presume your mission is somewhere central in the city, so it would be very easy for us to pick you up if you find the tram and train network difficult. I commute some distance to church myself, so it's not really out of our way.

I forgot to add - you can reach me by dropping an email to the church site, which will automatically contact me.

 

[dog8food]

Thanks, I'll be in contact. The thing is, YWAM is actually way out in Surrey Hills

@Pergamum- I'll definitely keep that idea in my prayers.