Cosmetic Surgery and the Christian

[twogunfighter]

Mary

I learned in the Army. However they don't teach that good and as you can tell by world events, russian is not as necessary as when I was taught, so I have fallen out of practice over the last several years.

Also:

[quote:d38aad5d56]
And let me ask you a serious question. Let's say that I have a feature I'm ashamed of, and I get that "fixed". Then I meet a great guy, who falls in love with me. We get married. Am I ever going to be really confident that he loves ME? Would he have loved me before the surgery?
[/quote:d38aad5d56]

Whatever "me" that the guy falls for is the girl that he loves. He does not differentiate and somehow just fall for "inside person." There is in my opinion no platonic division such that "the real you" is your character, spirit, soul or whatever. It is all one whole. Neither should be over-emphasized. If one is fat it is probably because one is lazy. If one is built like a runner it is in most cases because he runs alot which probably implies industriousness at least in that area. If you sin physically, you sin; if you sin mentally, you sin. If you are outwardly attractive and have the mental capacity of Anna Nicole Smith then, to me at least, you will be unattractive. On the other hand if you are great theologian and look like Ellen Degeneres then I will find you equally unattractive.

One other thing, what if a hypothetical woman did not get that unsightly blemish fixed and met a guy who really loved everything about her but her nose for instance. Would she really want that guy thinking "well, even though I really like her as person and she is really smart and would make a great mom etc; I am just going to close my eyes when we kiss because I can't stand that heinous nose?"

Chuck

 

[Mary]

[quote:c1e624fb09][i:c1e624fb09]Originally posted by Christopher[/i:c1e624fb09]
I think a lot of the reason women have this self-esteem problem because of men. They are not by nature initiators, but responders. I think men, in their lust have been the root of this problem. Not to say women are innocent. Women are trying to look like the women that men lust over and men try to make their woman into that idol. Lets face it, if lust was not a problem for men then women would not be wearing those "half cloths" they wear. Sinful man wants to look at a woman's flesh and sinful woman wants attention so she goes to sinfull means to obtain it when both should be looking to God for their source of satisfaction and fullfilment.
(dismounting again) [/quote:c1e624fb09]

Well, yes... It is sort of a vicious cycle, isn't it? As women, though, we have a responsibility to dress and behave in a respectable way. I have an issue with the whole "men are the evil oppressors of women, children and kittens" thing...which I know is not what you're saying, but a lot of people do say it. Somebody once said that you can tell a lot about the quality of a society by the way that society treats its women and children. I think you can tell a lot about a society by the way its women behave. You either behave with dignity and a sense of self-worth, or you don't. When I watched the program on VH1 yesterday, they ran an ad for the next episode of some reality program, where the goal is to get a body like Beyonce. This girl had a total screaming meltdown, which they aired as the "teaser" for the episode. I was appalled for her. How desperate do you have to be; how little do you have to think of yourself, to allow yourself to be humiliated on national (international?) television? And I'm sorry, if I were a guy and I saw that girl on the show, there's no way I would ever ask her out - I'd expect another meltdown...

Which is a long way of saying I think you made a good point.

Mary :bs2:

 

[Mary]

Twogun,

Wow. OK. You made lots of points, and I hope I can remember half of them. (My memory is a little iffy...)

You are absolutely right - there is nothing wrong with wanting to be beautiful to attract a mate, or just because you feel better about yourself. I said in one of my earliest posts (for some reason I seem to be the "poster child" for this post, and I don't know why!) that the reason I wear makeup is because I feel better about myself when I do. And yes, it's nice when a guy says, oh she's pretty, but you know what? Even if I'm not leaving the house, I still put on makeup. Even just to clean house! I feel put together, "dressed," groomed, efficient, like I can take on the world, so those dust bunnies had better head for the hills! I have an old Betty Crocker that preaches the importance of putting on lipstick and a little perfume for the day (this is aimed at housewives) because you will feel better about yourself and I find it to be true. As a matter of fact, the right scent REALLY motivates me. Energy galore!

I am a little saddened when I see Christian frumps. To borrow the Army slogan (how fitting!) I think we should "be all we can be" and we are "advertisements" for God in a way. Don't take that in a worldly way...I'm not really doing a good job of explaining myself...but frumpy is very depressing. I try to present myself as attractive, clean & neat, and modest without frumpiness. Hopefully I succeed. I want to present myself as belonging to Jesus, and HAPPY about it! After all, true self-worth comes from God. He is the only Source of inner joy and the Artist who creates outer beauty.

Where I have a problem is when our society gets on these little tirades about a certain look. When I was a preteen/early teen, Christie Brinkley was "it". Guess what? I don't look a thing like Christie Brinkley. And I felt ugly because of it. I have been told that I resemble Sela Ward (if you know who she is). She's practically the exact opposite of Christie Brinkley, and as much as I wanted to look like the girl next door, Gidget/Shirley Temple/Doris Day, I just DON'T. Credit my central European ancestry. I have now reached an age where I realize that not everyone has to look like Christie Brinkley, and how boring would it be if we all did! But that's what I see with these girls in the office building I'm in! They are interchangeable (in appearance). I think I'm attractive because I look like ME, not like a Christie Brinkley wannabe (or Britney Spears, today).

So, yes if there is something that is REALLY off, I think it's OK to fix it, but I think it's important to remember that really, if you're attractive, it's because you FEEL worthy, and you can be tremendously well put-together, and have all your "flaws" fixed, but if you don't feel pretty, and worthwhile, THAT is what you project to the world. You can be beautiful AND hollow. And maybe that is what we see when we look at Mary Tyler Moore, and Cher. They have no sense of themselves, and so look hollow and empty.

But beauty is not intrinsically bad, and I think the Bible is full of Godly women who understood that beauty has an important place. Esther is a shining example of that, and being a big fan of creams and potions myself, I think I have a secret kinship with her. (The bottles multiply on their own, honest!) However, Jezebel also thought beauty was important, but her focus was not healthy. I guess the point is we should "use our powers for good, and not evil."

It's a fine line, because on the one hand we have the frumpy and on the other hand we have the vain. I try to walk the middle path, but am fully aware that if I read too many women's magazines, I will start saving up for procedures. I'm not the best judge of my own level of attractiveness, but I think I'm OK. It's only when I read the magazines and watch the Style channel that I'm certain I resemble a pit bull who's lost a couple of fights!

I don't know what a Melissa Melons is, so I don't know what you're saying there...

Hope that kind of clarifies what I was trying to say...

Did I answer some of your comments?

Mary :bs2:

 

[twogunfighter]

Chuck

[quote:5b5c37f449]
It's a fine line, because on the one hand we have the frumpy and on the other hand we have the vain. I try to walk the middle path,....
[/quote:5b5c37f449]

That seems to be exactly where we ought to be.

As for Melissa, it is good that you are confused. It shows that you are less spotted by the world than I.

Chuck

 

[Mary]

Twogun wrote:
[quote:9407c90c49]
As for Melissa, it is good that you are confused. It shows that you are less spotted by the world than I.
[/quote:9407c90c49]

Oh. Well, duh. I guess the name should have clued me in.

My Madeline Kahn impression: "I am not a bimbo!"

(Just a little square.)

 

[Augusta]

I agree with having something done to correct an obvious flaw or issue. We have no problems getting braces for crooked teeth or a bridge or crown to fill in a blank spot. Or lazik eye surgery to correct vision and throw out the glasses. I can see someone who had there nose broken before and having something done to correct damage done. I think that we can all agree that a boob job to correct a double mastectomy is different than getting one so that you can star in a p0rn film with huge breasts. There is a spectrum here and people will have to do there own inward thinking as to why they are having something done. It has more to do with the intentions I think than the actual procedure.

 

[Christopher]

Agreed.

 

[Irishcat922]

What about toe hair? can they Lazer that off? Just curious.

 

[Gregg]

The toe hair removal specialist at your service sir...

 

[Augusta]

I hear duct tape works like a charm.

 

[Irishcat922]

If you can't afford to Lazer it duct it!:bs2:

 

[Gregg]

And after you're done with the duct tape, you can save it for one of those home improvement projects that might come up.

 

[Mary]

[quote:6aca1a1659][i:6aca1a1659]Originally posted by Irishcat922[/i:6aca1a1659]
What about toe hair? can they Lazer that off? Just curious. [/quote:6aca1a1659]

Irish, if your back is as hairy as you claim, having baby smooth toes is just going to look WEIRD. If you're as hairy as Lon Chaney Jr. (the Wolfman, for all you youngsters out there), I say embrace it, go with it, and for heaven's sake clean the drain when you get out of the shower, so your wife doesn't kill you!!!

:wr50:

Mary

 

[Irishcat922]

I have had the nicknames of sasquatch and chewbacca at different times in my life. That was when I used to have really long hair.

 

[Mary]

[quote:33d8147b85][i:33d8147b85]Originally posted by Irishcat922[/i:33d8147b85]
I have had the nicknames of sasquatch and chewbacca at different times in my life. That was when I used to have really long hair. [/quote:33d8147b85]

SASQUATCH!!! That's the name I couldn't remember this morning!!! All I kept coming up with was Yeti, and I knew that wasn't right...The Lon Chaney/Wolfman thing was a compromise on my part. I knew there was a better name, and there's even a Trixie Belden mystery based around the legend of the Sasquatch (it turned out to be a Scooby-Doo-esque attempt to scare people away; what a copout)...

Some days I really worry about my future. If I'm this bad NOW, what in the world am I going to be like when I'm actually OLD?

Mary