Submission to Unlawfully Ordained Elders

[pastorway]

I was thinking about this today and realized that Gabe does have to submit to those that he believes are unlawfully ordained elders.

As a member of this board he voluntarily agreed when he signed up to submit himself to the leadership of the admins and mods of the Puritan Board, several of which are ordained ministers - though some meet his test for lawful ordination, others do not!

So if we say that we must NEVER submit to those who we think are "unlawfully" ordained then we sure have a short list of those to whom we can submit, and we have a problem with a few Scripture verses!

There is a time and place for all of us to submit to those we would rather not, and in fact, as believers, we are COMMANDED to submit to each other within the body - ordination notwithstanding!

Ephesians 5
17 Therefore do not be unwise, but understand what the will of the Lord is. 18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord, 20 giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, 21 submitting to one another in the fear of God.


[Edited on 9-29-05 by pastorway]

 

[VictorBravo]

Originally posted by pastorway
I was thinking about this today and realized that Gabe does have to submit to those that he believes are unlawfully ordained elders.

. . .

There is a time and place for all of us to submit to those we would rather not, and in fact, as believers, we are COMMANDED to submit to each other within the body - ordination notwithstanding!

. . .

[Edited on 9-29-05 by pastorway]

Pastorway, that was the point I tried to make at first. If you are a guest, you should submit to the authority established.

I'm reminded of the itinerant evangelist Rolfe Barnard. He stated that he was ordained by his home church and under its authority. But when he was a guest preacher at a different church, he was under the authority of that church and would "do whatever the elders asked" of him. If he could not, he would quietly withdraw without protest. He certainly did not promote rebellion, but acknowledged the necessity of a preacher being under the authority of a church.

On the subject of Paul preaching, I think all would agree he was called by God. I agree with Martin that this is the first and most important requirement for a man to be a preacher. Nevertheless, as Scott B. pointed out even Paul was ordained, although it was later.

I don't think there is a problem with any believer preaching, be it on street corners or elsewhere.
But that person should be a member of a church and subject to church oversight and discipline. I don't see it as being scriptural for a professing Christian to simply start a church around himself and call himself the elder.

Vic

 

[Scott]

Perhaps this man has been called by God. The board seems to be condemning him for not having been called by men (cf. Luke 20:1-2 ). There is a simple and Biblical way to find out whether a man is called by God or not. "You shall know them by their fruits."

This sounds a bit like saying a couple living together does not need a marriage certificate b/c they have love (I hear the argument often). I apologize that the analogy connotes something lewd (I hesitated posting for that reason), which is not what I am getting at. Point is technicalities can be substantative and material. A couple can live together and do all the things a man and wife do (and even have great fruits) without being legitimate.