Ryan&Amber2013
Puritan Board Graduate
Have you ever thought about how the dinosaurs went extinct? What are the most sound reformed theories? Thank you very much!
What Happened to the Dinosaurs?
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Edward
Puritanboard Commissioner
Ever seen how big some dinosaurs were? Not enough room on the ark.
Well, that depends; were they baby dinosaurs?
How can there be a "reformed" theory of dinosaurs? Is there a chapter in one of the Confessions that addresses this matter? We can speculate about "what happened," and end up agreeing with people of vastly different commitments regarding faith, science, history, physics, etc.; and for markedly different reasons, I might add. This is not heading toward anything particularly "Reformed."
If we aren't really raising a question that is properly tagged "Reformed" (we're not), then we're simply wondering what range of possible answers fit with a Reformed man's commitment to biblical authority and primacy. Frankly, plenty of respected men have been found all over the map on such things--when attempts are made (in various ages of theoretical speculation) to square raw natural data, scientific theory, and sound hermeneutics of a book which is about Redemptive history and only incidentally/secondarily about the stage on which the drama is presented.
I think my main interest here is urging appropriate caution about dogmatizing on sauropods, or contending so earnestly for one particular position (or against one) that it somehow gets intertwined with first-order gospel concerns. Being Reformed is about confessing Christ, and next to nothing about Dino.
If we aren't really raising a question that is properly tagged "Reformed" (we're not), then we're simply wondering what range of possible answers fit with a Reformed man's commitment to biblical authority and primacy. Frankly, plenty of respected men have been found all over the map on such things--when attempts are made (in various ages of theoretical speculation) to square raw natural data, scientific theory, and sound hermeneutics of a book which is about Redemptive history and only incidentally/secondarily about the stage on which the drama is presented.
I think my main interest here is urging appropriate caution about dogmatizing on sauropods, or contending so earnestly for one particular position (or against one) that it somehow gets intertwined with first-order gospel concerns. Being Reformed is about confessing Christ, and next to nothing about Dino.
SolaScriptura
Puritanboard Brimstone
What dinosaurs?
Bill The Baptist
Puritan Board Graduate
I would agree that considering the lack of clear biblical data, it is best not to get overly dogmatic about such an issue. That being said, I do think there are aspects of this topic that do relate to our understanding of creation and the fall, and thus would most certainly fall under the realm of gospel concerns, and therefore pertinent to the reformed view of Christianity and the world.
Berean
Puritanboard Commissioner
Gary Larson is the best!
rookie
Puritan Board Junior
I have a theory about where the dinosaurs went. First of all, we have to define what we mean by dinosaur. That would was only created/invented in 1842 by Richard Owen, to describe a fearfully great lizard.
If we're talking about the big animals that have been extinct for centuries (or shortly after the flood), then we can seriously look at reptiles. Most of them don't stop growing their entire lives. Some grow slowly, some grow fast, but if you have a 900 yr old iguana, that my friend would be a huge "dinosaur". Or even a crocodile. I'm not sure I would want to meet one a few hundred feet long.
And then since the flood, the entire planet inhabitants lifespan was shortened to about 100 yrs. Therefore limiting the size of some of these animals.
Do I have facts, no, however, this does make sense.
If we're talking about the big animals that have been extinct for centuries (or shortly after the flood), then we can seriously look at reptiles. Most of them don't stop growing their entire lives. Some grow slowly, some grow fast, but if you have a 900 yr old iguana, that my friend would be a huge "dinosaur". Or even a crocodile. I'm not sure I would want to meet one a few hundred feet long.
And then since the flood, the entire planet inhabitants lifespan was shortened to about 100 yrs. Therefore limiting the size of some of these animals.
Do I have facts, no, however, this does make sense.
Ryan&Amber2013
Puritan Board Graduate
I apologize if my wording is incorrect. I was just looking for a theory that seems to be sound and consistent with Reformed teaching. For example, I have non-reformed friends who will tell me Darwinian evolution is true, and that dinosaurs went extinct millions of years ago by a giant meteor. I would be confused if a reformed Christian had these same views, that is why I was trying to see if the Reformed camp has some general consistencies with the teaching on this subject. I am just a Christian seeking and hoping to find. Thank you kindly.
Miss Marple
Puritan Board Junior
On the ark, they even could have been eggs I suppose.
Peairtach
Puritan Board Doctor
Some people will be suspicious of too much dogmatism in a theory about dinosaurs being made a test if orthodoxy by YECs, OECs or others, and that is a valid concern regarding laying burdens of belief on people that are based on our own fallible theories about the implications of Scripture. E.g. some YECs maintain that there was no rain before the Flood and no rainbows before the Flood.
As regards evolution the dinosaurs among themselves show very distinct types and features with no indication of being gradualistically related to each other.
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Jake
Puritan Board Senior
"Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every living thing that creepeth upon the earth, There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, male and female, as God had commanded Noah." (Genesis 7:8-9)
Jake
Puritan Board Senior
It seemed pretty flourishing to me, for however many "kinds" were upon the ark to proliferate to the large number of species on Earth today in such a short amount of time. I'm imagining a lot of the evolving happened fairly shortly after the flood, since we don't see as much rapid change happening continuously.
Peairtach
Puritan Board Doctor
Some say that Leviathan and Behemoth in Job are descriptions of dinosaurs.
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Grolar bears are an example of "evolution" before our eyes...quick adaptation.
http://archive.onearth.org/article/grolar-bears-and-narlugas-rise-of-the-arctic-hybrids
http://www.cracked.com/article_19213_7-animals-that-are-evolving-right-before-our-eyes_p2.html
Scientists seem to call this "fast hybridiziation" a proof of evolution, even at the same time as asserting that the world could not be young because of all the slow time it takes for all these evolutionary changes to take place.
The present state of all the animals in the world (minus sea creatures) could have come from one big boat.
http://archive.onearth.org/article/grolar-bears-and-narlugas-rise-of-the-arctic-hybrids
http://www.cracked.com/article_19213_7-animals-that-are-evolving-right-before-our-eyes_p2.html
Scientists seem to call this "fast hybridiziation" a proof of evolution, even at the same time as asserting that the world could not be young because of all the slow time it takes for all these evolutionary changes to take place.
The present state of all the animals in the world (minus sea creatures) could have come from one big boat.
Please don't take my concern for a "conservationist" use of terms in a personally offensive way. It wasn't meant as such.
You may find a generally reformed guy who believes in evolution--Darwinian or some other version. I think its mistaken, but I don't know all it took to convince him, or where his own (presumed) informational "gap" could be. I could offer him a reason to change his mind that is less-robust than that which currently supports his view.
A helpful question is whether he is willing to concede that reasonable people "in our modern age" can hold an perfectly sound, hermeneutically and naturally compatible position that rejects evolution. While I've found creationists (of Old or Young varieties) who are "my way or the highway" types, writing off people outside their camp as heretics; I've also run into plenty of intolleristas from the snotty-scientific community, who brand anyone who wasn't on board the EvolutionExpress a hundred years ago as "flat-earth rubes from Dorkville."
Not enough humility all the way around.
Attempts to shoe-horn an evolutionary scheme into Gen.1&2, or to overwrite the biblical narrative Gen.1-11 with geological age-chronology, are not (in my judgment) conformable to general Reformed rules of exegesis. Certain other interpretations I dissent from are more respectable, but still demand significant "special pleading" on certain points, as I see them.
Once again, I want evidence that (relatively) consistent biblical interpretation and primacy (there is no body of data as CLEAR as the Bible!) sets a man on the path of knowledge; over against the subjection of one's interpretation of Scripture to unassailable certainties established by autonomous reason interpreting natural phenomena.
It doesn't do a creation-favoring person any good if he does something similar to that which he objects when coming from the other side. But what is really needful is that Reformed people remain aware of the salvific essence of our faith. An evolutionist can stand forgiven before God for decades in this life, and get any false ideas he might have improved in glory. But no creationist, proud of his ideas, whose creationism is a form of works-righteousness, will go anywhere besides hell.
Do you mind expounding on the thought behind your question?
johnny
Puritan Board Sophomore
I believe your theory is spot on
Also, some dinosaurs survived and grew large enough to be considered dragons.
There is abundant evidence for this in old statues, murals and folklore.
Such a slow moving creature was no match for a bunch of pitchfork villages.
http://creation.com/dinosaurs-and-dragons-stamping-on-the-legends
Ryan&Amber2013
Puritan Board Graduate
That is a very interesting view.
Douglas P.
Puritan Board Freshman
This has been the predominant theory since the 1980s.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cretaceous–Paleogene_extinction_event
johnny
Puritan Board Sophomore
D
Deleted member 6112
Guest
How did it not wipe out the humans? After all, Genesis 1 teaches that they were created on the same day as all land animals.
rookie
Puritan Board Junior
This
As one who holds to the doctrine of creation I don't believe what you have set forward can be genuinely credited as a "belief."
D
Deleted member 6112
Guest
[note: This is not particularly addressed to Rev. Buchanan, but is intended to add to the discussion as a whole]
While there isn't a chapter in the confessions on dinosaurs, the Westminster Confession has one on creation, and it states in no uncertain terms:
So, while there may not be a Reformed doctrine of dinosaurs, the Reformed doctrine of creation requires the understanding that whatever dinosaurs there may be or have been were created some during that six day period in which God accomplished his work of creation.
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