Question about the wicked

[Toasty]

According to Psalm 5:5 and Psalm 11:5, God hates the wicked. Does the wicked include the elect who have not been regenerated yet or are they the reprobate only?

 

[Steve Curtis]

There are only two types of people - sheep and goats. Of course, some of the sheep are still "lost," but they are nevertheless His sheep, for whom Christ died (John 10:11).
"But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins..." (Eph. 2:4-5)

 

[timfost]

Steve,

What do you think of Calvin's endorsement of Augustine on this matter?

Our being reconciled by the death of Christ must not be understood as if the Son reconciled us, in order that the Father, then hating, might begin to love us, but that we were reconciled to him already, loving, though at enmity with us because of sin. To the truth of both propositions we have the attestation of the Apostle, 'God commendeth his love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,' (Rom 5: 8). Therefore he had this love towards us even when, exercising enmity towards him, we were the workers of iniquity. Accordingly in a manner wondrous and divine, he loved even when he hated us. For he hated us when we were such as he had not made us, and yet because our iniquity had not destroyed his work in every respect, he knew in regard to each one of us, both to hate what we had made, and love what he had made." (Institutes 2.16.4)

I think the problem that we have with considering "love" and "hate" is that we make them an absolute dichotomy in all senses when scripture does not. Compare Luke 14:26 and 1 John 4:20, Matt. 5:45 and Rom. 9:13.

 

[KeithW]

According to Psalm 5:5 and Psalm 11:5, God hates the wicked. Does the wicked include the elect who have not been regenerated yet or are they the reprobate only?

I don't have an answer, but I think there is more context to consider. Just like you asked for what context of people God was referring to, we should also ask what is meant when God uses the words that He hates and He loves? In the context of God as Creator and Provider, He demonstrates a certain kind of love by providing for all those He has created, even the wicked. And He asks us to love our enemies. If the context of God's love and hate is in the context of eternal salvation, it is a different story.

Rom. 9:11-13 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; ) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

That God's election might stand, before twins were born, before they even had the chance to do good or evil, God chose one and not the other -- God loved one and hated the other.

[edit - changed a "wink" emoji back into real punctuation]

 

[Contra_Mundum]

The Lord loves his elect in Christ, and from all eternity.

The Lord hates all iniquity, and them that do iniquity, and will requite it of them who live in Adam whenever/wherever they dwell under the terms of the Covenant of Works and its curse.

Flee from Sodom. To be an elect person under conviction of sin, living in Sodom and in Adam, is to know--really, truly--a vengeful God in the only way he can be known as long as this relation remains unchanged historically.

It is the love of God for his elect-in-Christ child that summons him, and the wrath of God that drives him, from the place where is known only the unchangeable hostility of God against every will that opposes his.

Who may abide the day of his coming? None who have shunned the way of escape, for that way is only open toward the consuming fire, in the narrow way of shelter. Only there may one stand in the judgment.

Covenantally there must be an historic move from wrath to grace, from Adam to Christ, for the Lord's elect. It is because of God's everlasting effectual love that such a move happens.

The ungodly are not so, nor are they thankful for any taste enjoyed of the goodness of God.

 

[Toasty]

According to Psalm 5:5 and Psalm 11:5, God hates the wicked. Does the wicked include the elect who have not been regenerated yet or are they the reprobate only?

I don't have an answer, but I think there is more context to consider. Just like you asked for what context of people God was referring to, we should also ask what is meant when God uses the words that He hates and He loves? In the context of God as Creator and Provider, He demonstrates a certain kind of love by providing for all those He has created, even the wicked. And He asks us to love our enemies. If the context of God's love and hate is in the context of eternal salvation, it is a different story.

Rom. 9:11-13 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; ) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

That God's election might stand, before twins were born, before they even had the chance to do good or evil, God chose one and not the other -- God loved one and hated the other.

[edit - changed a "wink" emoji back into real punctuation]

God loves the non-elect in the sense that He provides for their physical needs, but hates them in the sense that he does not choose to save them. Correct?

 

[timfost]

God loves the non-elect in the sense that He provides for their physical needs, but hates them in the sense that he does not choose to save them. Correct?

I think it's important to note that the ground for the hatred is sin, not reprobation itself. Reprobation is the determined purpose of God to leave them in their sin. If we define "love" (agape) as "a commitment to the good of another," there is no real problem, since, as you mentioned, He cares for all of His creation which is an expression of that agape, though it does not follow that He is committed to infallibly bringing them to eternal salvation. Even offering salvation to them, though it is rejected, is an expression of that commitment (John 3:14-18).

 

[Afterthought]

I thought the ground for the judgment was sin, while the ground for reprobation was in the will of God? Doesn't the very act of reprobation require hatred of its object?

 

[timfost]

I thought the ground for the judgment was sin, while the ground for reprobation was in the will of God?

I agree.

Doesn't the very act of reprobation require hatred of its object?

The act of reprobation always takes sin into account.

Dort:

...while others are passed by in the eternal decree; whom God, out of His sovereign, most just, irreprehensible, and unchangeable good pleasure, has decreed to leave in the common misery into which they have willfully plunged themselves, and not to bestow upon them saving faith and the grace of conversion; but, permitting them in His just judgment to follow their own ways, at last, for the declaration of His justice, to condemn and punish them forever, not only on account of their unbelief, but also for all their other sins. And this is the decree of reprobation (Dort 1.15)

Hodge ST:

And everywhere, as in Rom. i. 24, 26, 28, reprobation is declared to be judicial, founded upon the sinfulness of its objects. Otherwise it could not be a manifestation of the justice of God.

 

[MW]

Those Psalms are appealing to God as moral governor and judge of all men; and as they appeal to an act of judgment they must be without respect of persons. They describe men as evaluated by their moral character. Election and reprobation do not enter into the subject matter, which is concerned with an historical process of judgment. When men appeal to God's "love" or "hatred" in Providence as a basis for understanding some "disposition" towards elect or reprobate, they mix up distinct categories of thought and throw the subject into confusion. The very fact God "hates" the elect in a sense prior to regeneration, and "loves" the reprobate in a sense as a part of His common providence, is sufficient reason to keep the two categories of thought distinct.