A Struggle Believing Things "Work For My Good"

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Ryan&Amber2013

Puritan Board Graduate
I think I just pinpointed a difficulty I have with my faith. Through experience I haven't really seen how the bad things in life work for my good, which leads to doubt during the bad things that happen in life. Often my troubles lead to anxiety, fear, set backs in character growth, doubting and complaining to God, feeling jaded, losing zeal and strength to serve more, etc.

Why am I not seeing the fruit? If I doubt during suffering, then how is that difficulty leading to something good as an outcome? Why did he promise good when he sovereignly appoints doubt, brokenness, and confusion as the outcome? If I rely on my own faith and performance to grow during the difficulty, and I am failing, how is that working for my good? I can't rely on my own strength and work, I am too weak and he must do it. If God is the one working things out, why are they used for my detriment? Whether it's my responsibility or God's work, I'm not seeing a good outcome during my hardships, and I often see one pain compiled on another by adding a spiritual pain to it. Since God is sovereign in such things, I would imagine good results like deeper faith, strong trust, character growth, etc., would always be the outcome since I am his child.

I know it's a lot of rambling. Maybe I'm just looking for some kind of sympathy and a good word to help change my negative thoughts. Thank you all!
 
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In some difficulties, God shows you his sanctifying power. In others, he shows you your weakness. 2 Chronicles 32:31.
 
Our idea of good is often very limited and rather impatient. What I mean is that we assume that it will take a few minutes and the good will be something immediately recognizable.

In context, of course, the good is conformity to Christ. And since we are conformed to Christ's sufferings, the short-term payoff may be undiscernible to us. There are many times when we'll be able to say, with Psalm 119, that it was good for us to have been afflicted. But the unveiling of all the good that God worked for us awaits the glorious manifestation of the sons of God. The crises of discouragement and distress through which we pass are worked together for good; but I think it is often the case that the only good we can detect as soon as they are somewhat behind us is that we are still calling upon the Lord. That seed will result in a harvest; but it isn't harvest time yet, at least not fully.
 
Often my troubles lead to anxiety, fear, set backs in character growth, doubting and complaining to God, feeling jaded, losing zeal and strength to serve more, etc.

Besides Ruben's salient point, it is worth observing how scum comes to the surface in the fire. That means it is being separated from the gold. Everything you mentioned appears in the Psalms, so it would be good to read or sing through them and let them lead you from sight to faith.
 
And sorry, just to clarify, I'm not in a faith crisis or anything like that. I love God very much and he is the only source of life for me. I just deal with disappointment because I want more, I want the most of life and my service to him. I know it can be a taboo topic to openly talk about doubt, but maybe I'm not alone and it can do good to be open about it.
 
And sorry, just to clarify, I'm not in a faith crisis or anything like that. I love God very much and he is the only source of life for me. I just deal with disappointment because I want more, I want the most of life and my service to him. I know it can be a taboo topic to openly talk about doubt, but maybe I'm not alone and it can do good to be open about it.

When I say, "led from sight to faith," I mean in the sanctified sense, where a believer needs to be more solidified in his faith, not in any sense as if this suggests a faith crisis. It is the ordinary Christian life -- "Lord, I believe, help thou mine unbelief" -- what we all have to struggle with.
 
I think I just pinpointed a difficulty I have with my faith. Through experience I haven't really seen how the bad things in life work for my good, which leads to doubt during the bad things that happen in life. Often my troubles lead to anxiety, fear, set backs in character growth, doubting and complaining to God, feeling jaded, losing zeal and strength to serve more, etc.

Why am I not seeing the fruit? If I doubt during suffering, then how is that difficulty leading to something good as an outcome? Why did he promise good when he sovereignly appoints doubt, brokenness, and confusion as the outcome? If I rely on my own faith and performance to grow during the difficulty, and I am failing, how is that working for my good? I can't rely on my own strength and work, I am too weak and he must do it. If God is the one working things out, why are they used for my detriment? Whether it's my responsibility or God's work, I'm not seeing a good outcome during my hardships, and I often see one pain compiled on another by adding a spiritual pain to it. Since God is sovereign in such things, I would imagine good results like deeper faith, strong trust, character growth, etc., would always be the outcome since I am his child.

I know it's a lot of rambling. Maybe I'm just looking for some kind of sympathy and a good word to help change my negative thoughts. Thank you all!
What do you think your 'good' will look like?

I've been living with long-term illness for a while now, as well as some other difficult issues, so I hope you won't take what I'm about to say as trite or condescending - it's what I preach to myself.

Firstly, look at the good those serving Christ in the scriptures received: Isaiah and Jeremiah's agonies, Job, and Paul's sufferings - which led him to the point that he 'despaired even of life' and was oppressed by 'anxiety for all the churches'. Yet these men would have said, at least afterwards, that this was for their good, as well as that of the churches... and Paul does say, of course, that he has 'learned to be content in all circumstances'. He has only learned this by going through all circumstances... and some of them have been very hard.

What good is God working in you? Well, for me, I needed my pride hammered if I was to stay on track. That's never going to come through success or obvious outward growth. Self-reliance is our great enemy. So often we unwittingly envisage growth in godliness as an inner strength that is actually a projected, spiritualised version of self-reliance. It isn't: growth is the ability to hang onto God every moment especially those in which we are struggling and cannot see any good coming from hanging on. If we only trust him when we can see what we are getting out of it - even spiritually - then it's a pretty shallow trust. Doubt, brokenness and confusion are exactly where we learn how fragile and false our faith was at the start, and are opportunities to build a true reliance on him.

In these heavy situations you may not see your own growth. But if you are holding onto him, despite a situation that's harder than ever before, if you are still trying, still fighting - you have probably grown far, far more than you think.

Our ideas of what is good for us are so often diluted prosperity gospel, whatever our background is. But God is not like that: he is like a doctor operating on a very sick patient, and sometimes medicine really hurts. Sometimes it makes you feel a lot sicker than your actual illness. But it's worth it.

So if you doubt during suffering, that could very well be for your good - not because doubt is good (it certainly isn't) but because the fragile foundations of your faith have been exposed, and that's what it's going to take in order to shore them up. When we hear that there is suffering in the Christian life, we so often think that this will mean outward sufferings - persecution, maybe illness - but not inward sufferings, spiritual trials and pains. We think we'll be buoyed up through the sufferings by inward joy and peace that's ever increasing. But that's not what he promises, real as joy and peace are in the Christian life.

And then, of course, as you've said, his power is made perfect in weakness. Paul did not live 'the victorious Christian life'; but his holding onto a mighty God in the middle of suffering and weakness, God's working through him and his weakness, had awesome power for the gospel.

Praying for you, brother. Praying that you will have your eyes opened to what he is doing in you; praying that you do have some let-up in whatever you are going through; praying that you come to the point that you can say with Paul that you have learned to be content in every circumstance; and that you will come through to a truly battle-hardened, confident faith that holds on to God through thick and thin; and praying that God will be working through your weakness in a way that will let you see his grace transforming the lives of others.
 
Something I’ve been thinking about recently.

Satan basically said of Job, “he only serves God because his life is good and easy.” Job 1:9-11 When we cleave to the Lord in difficult seasons, we clear ourselves of this charge.
 
Something I’ve been thinking about recently.

Satan basically said of Job, “he only serves God because his life is good and easy.” Job 1:9-11 When we cleave to the Lord in difficult seasons, we clear ourselves of this charge.

That is a great point. Too often we get tied up in knots over "assurance" and forget the simple act of "adherence" as an exercise of faith.
 
I think I just pinpointed a difficulty I have with my faith.
The Lord has blessed me so much the past few years that I consider myself now a champion of the concept that Romans 8:28 reminds us all of that is so clearly taught in Scripture. But for me, there were two barrels to this shotgun. Well three actually. I mentioned the third in passing. Getting the third out of the way I am going to say something that everybody believes and agrees with already, but I'm still going to say it. All faith comes first from knowledge of the truth. But knowing a truth of God and knowing the God of Truth deeply in our hearts are two very different things. Always remember that you cannot have number two without number one. I struggled for years at the truth summarized in Romans 8:28. I kept drilling it into my head--this is truth, I must believe the truth, only the truth will set me free. Maybe God got tired of me bothering Him about this, so about 5 or 6 years ago I came to believe that it was true and had to be true for me, too. Then a time of severe testing proved to me that I do now know the truth and it has set me free.

The second barrel, like the first, was a truth that you had to know from Scripture before you could have it change your heart. A lot of people struggle with thinking inordinately about their inadequacies. Of course we're inadequate. It's much worse than that, too. Jesus taught his disciples that without Him they could do nothing. But that's only part of the story, for we, in ourselves are not nothing. We are a positive evil, that apart from the overriding power of God we will only do evil, and that continually. So how can He really love somebody like you and me?

Easy--but profound. Because when God looks at you, He doesn't see you, He sees the seed of Christ in you--the very genetics (sperma) of Jesus are in you and make you beautiful in Christ's sight because like Christ. When He sees you at your worst He still looks at you and thinks, "What's not to love?"

1 John 3:9 KJV​
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.​
​
1 John 3:9 YLT98​
[9] every one who hath been begotten of God, sin he doth not, because his seed in him doth remain, and he is not able to sin, because of God he hath been begotten.​

Many but not all modern translations overthink this and say things like will send less or won't be addicted to sinning, or something like that that this verse does not say.

You have to go to Romans chapter 7 for a clearer view of what 1st John 3:9 means by cannot sin.

But you're on your own with first John and Romans 7 because the last time or two I tried to talk about this, I got zero response one time, and another time I got a frowning face with no words at all. So I just deleted my thread.
 
It should be noted that we often do not see the good until we are on the other side. We cling to the truth that it is for our good, while recognizing we do not see it in our present circumstances. That is the essence of faith.
 
Ryan, I know how you're feeling. I've tried finding immediate meaning to whatever waves God has me sail through, and I can just never figure it out. I see you're a fellow father, and our children are great examples of this from another perspective. How many times do our kids cry over something we were protecting them against? They'll probably never understand until we've raised them to maturity and shown it to them in retrospect.

Same with the earlier analogy of the waves. How many reefs has He prevented from shredding the hull, or how many waves have knocked us against the deck so we wouldn't fall to the sharks? That being said, I think your feelings still matter. Sure, you're not being turned into confetti by what lies under the surf, but you're still rattled throughout the voyage. The Psalms show us the range of emotion we go through in our walk with the Lord, and they don't shy away from venting frustration.

So we may not know now, but we'll know eventually. Obviously, that doesn't help ease our minds now, but what can ease our minds is knowing that God has known you since the beginning. He's set you apart for Himself and He will keep you in the light of His countenance. Nothing can take you from Him, saint.

"Thou hast turned for me my mourning into dancing: thou hast put off my sackcloth, and girded me with gladness; To the end that my glory may sing praise to thee, and not be silent. O Lord my God, I will give thanks unto thee for ever." Psalm 30:11-12 KJV
 
I've saved these replies on my notepad app and will keep letting them sink in. Your words aren't in vain and will be helpful. Any thoughts on why God doesn't often communicate with us why he is doing with us what he does? As a father I go out of my way to comfort and explain to my children all they should know about anything. God seems to like concealing many things.
 
Ignoring for a moment the infinite categorical differences in the analogy:

As a father do you do your child's homework for them? Do you say "put 4" when the homework asks for a solution to 2+2?

or do you let them productively struggle so you can see the "light bulb" moment where it dawns on them the full truth and meaning that 2 + 2 = 4 and cannot possibly equal 5 nor 3.

On a higher level, as a teacher, I am creating curriculum where assignments and quizzes and tests will be given over a semester. It is normal for many students to miss an assignment, get a zero, or struggle on a quiz or test even if I explain as much as I can think to. But always without living their life or arranging their personal schedule or even THINKING for them.

As a teacher, I cannot tell my students to lay aside their brains and put on my brain for their test.

If I could, they would gladly do so! Are you kidding? A brain that went through years of math and science training without them needing to actually suffer through the years of professors and posted final exams that mock high school "honor rolls"?

Yet God calls us to take off our rags and put on his robes of righteousness. A righteousness bought by blood and fully partaken of every drop of God's wrath. As God, he can tell us to lay aside our righteousness and put on his.

When we are able to by the power of the Holy Spirit, we gladly do so! Are you kidding? A life that went through all of that even when perfectly obeying the law of God as the propitiatory offering for our sins in our place?

Growth in holiness is hard and sin makes growth harder and longer in duration.

1689 5.3:

The most wise, righteous, and gracious God does often times leave for a season His own children to manifold temptations and the corruptions of their own hearts, to chastise them for their former sins, or to discover unto them the hidden strength of corruption and deceitfulness of their hearts, that they may be humbled; and to raise them to a more close and constant dependence for their support upon Himself; and to make them more watchful against all future occasions of sin, and for other just and holy ends.15 So that whatsoever befalls any of His elect is by His appointment, for His glory, and their good.16

15 2 Chron. 32:25–26,31; 2 Cor. 12:7-9
16 Rom. 8:28
 
I've saved these replies on my notepad app and will keep letting them sink in. Your words aren't in vain and will be helpful. Any thoughts on why God doesn't often communicate with us why he is doing with us what he does? As a father I go out of my way to comfort and explain to my children all they should know about anything. God seems to like concealing many things.

I think there are two answers here. The first being that we can't understand all of the moving pieces that He providentially oversees. We can only understand the end product. Let's say you're an electrician. If you start talking about Ohm's law or circuits, people will probably scratch their heads. People sure appreciate having electricity, though.

The other answer would be that He's revealed it already. Paul tells us:
"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." Philippians 2:12 KJV

We're not working for our salvation. We have to come to terms with the fact that we have the awesome gift of salvation. God died for you. It should make our hearts quake to know that the infinite Creator of everything around us personally loves us so much that He would die to save us.

I'll pray for you, brother. Feel free to reach out.
 
I've saved these replies on my notepad app and will keep letting them sink in. Your words aren't in vain and will be helpful. Any thoughts on why God doesn't often communicate with us why he is doing with us what he does? As a father I go out of my way to comfort and explain to my children all they should know about anything. God seems to like concealing many things.

Think about how much you conceal from your little children. You lock the doors and windows, but you don't tell them why, because you don't want to unnecessarily disturb them with thoughts of evil to come, especially the evil you are protecting them from. You want them to have a good night's sleep oblivious to such things. If God disclosed the future we would have to know ALL the bad things that are going to happen to us. There could be no peace. But while we trust that our heavenly Father never sleeps nor slumbers we can rest in a peace that passes all understanding.
 
Ryan @Ryan&Amber2013 , thinking further, in your situation I think, re my suggesting Tim Keller's book, Walking with God through Pain and Suffering, that you skip the early parts (initially) and go on straight to the section, Part Three, Walking with God in the Furnace. Which would speak to your condition, and help with understanding and accepting "how the bad things in life work for my good, which leads to doubt during the bad things that happen in life." Which result in "Often my troubles lead to anxiety, fear, set backs in character growth, doubting and complaining to God, feeling jaded, losing zeal and strength to serve more, etc."

Then going back to Part Two, is also full of helpful thoughts. I was surprised how great a help this book was to me in my condition.
 
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I went through a very similar struggle a few years ago when I was battling stage 4 colorectal cancer (praise God I am currently cancer free!). I had a lot of the same questions, doubts and emotions that you are expressing. I “knew” (at least intellectually/theologically) that the Lord was working in it (Romans 8:28), but I needed something more. Not meaning that God or God’s Word wasn’t sufficient to sustain me, but that I needed to go deeper with God and deeper into His Word. And that drove me to really study suffering, affliction, God’s providence, God’s promises, truly living by faith not by sight…and to ask questions like why does God ordain suffering in our lives, what is its purpose, and how are we to properly respond? And not just in general, but how do these things specifically apply to me…why did God specifically choose colorectal cancer as my affliction?

I won’t claim to have definitive answers to all these questions, nor will I claim that I no longer struggle with questions when God brings new afflictions into my life...but I can say with 100% certainty that I have a much better understanding of how and why God uses “afflictive providences” and “sanctified afflictions” (John Flavel’s terms), how we are to respond to them, and how God’s promises sustain us in the midst of them. And looking back, I can see how the Lord was so gracious to me during that time and drew me closer to Him.

These are the five books that helped me the most during my study of these topics. I would start with the first two:
  1. Suffering and Sovereignty: John Flavel and the Puritans on Afflictive Providence by Brian H. Cosby: Also, this is guaranteed to whet your appetite for more Flavel.
  2. Living by God's Promises - Deepen Your Christian Life Series by Joel Beeke & James La Belle: Don’t be fooled by the title. This is not one of those “God’s Promises for Graduates” type books. This is an amazing book that will teach you how to truly live by God’s promises and how they are all tied back to the covenant of grace and the work of Christ. There is an entire chapter on using God's promises during times of affliction.
  3. The Wells of Salvation Opened by William Spurstowe: The Beeke book above (#2) draws heavily from this book. It is an amazing book and highly recommended by Beeke (and me). I used it to supplement the Beeke book as part of my study on suffering/affliction, but I have also greatly enjoyed just reading it devotionally.
  4. The Mystery of Providence (Banner of Truth - Puritan Paperbacks version) by John Flavel.
  5. Behind a Frowning Providence by John J. Murray: This is a small booklet of only 29 pages, but it is excellent.
Praying for you!
 
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This is a good thread, and I appreciate the sobriety many have brought to it. I would just add something that I have had to learn more deeply in recent years.

A lot of our instincts, even as Christians, quietly assume that the promise of “all things working together for good” must cash out in this life as relief, resolution, or some kind of visible restoration. But when you sit with the New Testament long enough, especially in places like Romans, Hebrews, and 1 Peter, you realize how much of the Christian life is framed not in terms of relief, but endurance. Standing. Holding fast. Not because the pain is light, but because Christ is sure.

There are sorrows that do not meaningfully recede. There are wounds that do not “heal” in the way we would define healing. There are losses that permanently reconfigure a life. And there are evils that simply are not answered in history. They are not tied up neatly. They are not explained to our satisfaction. If our hope is functionally that those things must resolve here, we will either force shallow answers or drift toward despair.

What has become more real to me is that Scripture consistently directs our hope forward, not merely inward or circumstantial. The good God is working is not reducible to a more comfortable life. It is conformity to Christ, preservation in faith, and final vindication.

That is why the theme of the book of Revelation has grown in weight for me. It is not primarily a puzzle to decode, but a vision of the vindication of Christ and, in Him, the vindication of His people. The cries of the saints are not forgotten. They are, in fact, taken up into heaven itself. There is a holy insistence that what was done in darkness will be brought into the light and answered.

And that includes more than just human injustice. It includes sin, death, and all that has ravaged God’s people. Some things will only ever be answered at the return of Christ. Some longings will only ever be fulfilled in the new creation. But they will be answered.

There is something deeply biblical about the longing to see evil finally and decisively judged. We see it in the Psalms. We see it in the martyrs who cry out for justice. We even see it, rightly understood, in our instinct to want the villain to be brought down. That instinct is not something to be embarrassed about; it is something to be refined by Scripture.

Part of our hope is not only that Christ sustains us and works even our suffering toward our good, but that evil itself will be destroyed. Not managed. Not redirected. Destroyed. Sin will not have the last word. Death will not have the last word. They will be put down finally and completely under the feet of Christ.

So we endure. We stand. Not because everything will make sense now, and not because every sorrow will fade in this life, but because the end of the story is not in doubt. Christ will be vindicated. And all that has been done against Him and His people will not stand.

Sin, evil, and death will die screaming.
 
A lot of our instincts, even as Christians, quietly assume that the promise of “all things working together for good” must cash out in this life as relief, resolution, or some kind of visible restoration. But when you sit with the New Testament long enough, especially in places like Romans, Hebrews, and 1 Peter, you realize how much of the Christian life is framed not in terms of relief, but endurance. Standing. Holding fast. Not because the pain is light, but because Christ is sure.
Amen to this! Well said. It's a hard lesson to learn...one that I am still learning and need frequent reminders of...but once this truth sinks in, it can change one's whole perspective on suffering and pain.
 
but once this truth sinks in, it can change one's whole perspective on suffering and pain.

Once faith in this truth sinks in, it definitely changes one's perspective on suffering and pain.

I am not arguing at all, helpfully saying that reminders can only increase understanding. Understanding these reminders is a road to increasing faith in the promises of God in His Word and it is in the Word and its promises for us where our faith grows like a stream in the desert.

God bless you all
 
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