Keeping the Sabbath and Going to Restaurants

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Blue Tick

Puritan Board Graduate
I'm sure this has been discussed before, if we go out to restaurants on the sabbath are we promoting a form of breaking the sabbath?

I understand some people won't go out to eat on the sabbath because they feel that it enables others to break the sabbath even if their not Christians.

I don't see how a unregenerate person could even understand the importance of the sabbath. So are we violating the sabbath by having the unregenerate wait on us? I am speaking in general terms. There maybe some believers who are required to work on Sunday. I guess if I knew they were a believer I would refrain from going to that establishment.
 
Blue Tick said:
I'm sure this has been discussed before, if we go out to restaurants on the sabbath are we promoting a form of breaking the sabbath?

I understand some people won't go out to eat on the sabbath because they feel that it enables others to break the sabbath even if their not Christians.

I don't see how a unregenerate person could even understand the importance of the sabbath. So are we violating the sabbath by having the unregenerate wait on us? I am speaking in general terms. There maybe some believers who are required to work on Sunday. I guess if I knew they were a believer I would refrain from going to that establishment.
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Is the Sabbath not an universel creation-order ?
 
My pastor preached on the 4th commandment on the Lord's Day evening just gone. One the of the illustrations he used was of a minister who didn't believe in abstaining from work on the Lord's Day, and used to each lunch at a restaraunt after he had preached each Lord's Day morning. After some months of eating there every week, he had formed a relationship with the staff, and had a favourite table etc. One time he challendged the waitress to come to church and learn about God. Her response - I can't go to church, who would wait on all of you?

As the story goes he never ate there on the Lord's day again.

Matt

PS. I agree with the sentiments already expressed - the 4th commandment is part of God's moral law, and is the required manner of living for every human, not just believers. There is only one absolute moral standard.
 
 
Why do we assume that it is the unregenerate waiting on us at the restaurant, or Home Depot, etc? MAy these not be Christians who are forced to labor to earn their livelihood? Remember, the Sabbath command addresses not only individuals, but also masters and servants. Not only is it wrong to work on the Sabbath, it is wrong to force others to work on the Sabbath, as well.

I think mercy dictates that Christians ought to be circumspect in their Lord's Day activities. While I favor a more continental view (rest and recreation are okay), I do think that Christians ought to refrain from commerce on Sunday, which encourages employers to force employees to work.
 
KenPierce said:
Why do we assume that it is the unregenerate waiting on us at the restaurant, or Home Depot, etc? MAy these not be Christians who are forced to labor to earn their livelihood? Remember, the Sabbath command addresses not only individuals, but also masters and servants. Not only is it wrong to work on the Sabbath, it is wrong to force others to work on the Sabbath, as well.

I think mercy dictates that Christians ought to be circumspect in their Lord's Day activities. While I favor a more continental view (rest and recreation are okay), I do think that Christians ought to refrain from commerce on Sunday, which encourages employers to force employees to work.
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:ditto: :agree: And I'm not a sabbatarian. I do wish we had the old Sunday blue laws we used to have when I was a kid back in the 60's here in Virginia.
I remeber how after church we used to sit on the porch after dinner and just talk and nap untill Sunday night when we went back to church. O for those days again!
 
 
Regenerate or not, the law of God is being violated. By doing any business on Lord's day, we are requiring people to violate God's law inorder to serve our wants and we also support these violations of God's law through our personal funding.

Remember there are 10 commandments not 9.
 
Joey Pipa writes a book called "The Lord's Day". He makes some great points about eating out on Sundays. You should check it out. :2cents:
 
ChristopherPaul said:
Regenerate or not, the law of God is being violated. By doing any business on Lord's day, we are requiring people to violate God's law inorder to serve our wants and we also support these violations of God's law through our personal funding.

Remember there are 10 commandments not 9.
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How do you define "any business"?

Does it include taking delivery (on Sunday) of a consumer good you ordered beforehand and intend to pay for after the sabbath?
 
Kevin said:
Does it include taking delivery (on Sunday) of a consumer good you ordered beforehand and intend to pay for after the sabbath?
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I guess if you had a choice in advance of what day's they could deliver to you, you should certainly avoid the Lord's Day. If someone knocked at your door unexpectedly with a delivery, you might take it an put it aside until after the Lord's day - though I imagine this scenario is rare and therefore this would be an exception rather than the rule.

Matt
 
mangum said:
I have heard of this one.

Can you recall his conclusions/exhortations?
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Sorry, I can't remember exactly how he put it. I read the book one night I couldn't sleep because of pregnancy pains. And I can't look it up because my husband returned the book to the people we borrowed it from. But it was worth reading. And it was easy to read, defiantly for the layman. I know we have totally reformed our Sundays.
 
I assume that those that don't go to resturants don't watch sports on tv. I mean aren't those folks working on the sabbath. :um:
 
Swampguy said:
I assume that those that don't go to resturants don't watch sports on tv. I mean aren't those folks working on the sabbath. :um:
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I never watch sports on the Sabbath and try not to watch TV (in principle, I don't watch TV on the Sabbath). Granted, this comes from my extreme dislike of college-professional sports than anything else.
 
In our house, we try not to focus on what we don't do on Sundays, but what we can do. We don't want our kids to grow up to think, "OH NO, it's Sunday, BORING". Instead, we try to get excited. We are going to church, IT'S LORD'S DAY!" After church, while I make a quick lunch of sandwiches or whatever’s easiest, my husband has a special time that he has been reading "Little Pilgrims Progress" to our children. We eat together, and then it's naptime for our kids. When they wake up its time for evening service, to worship again. We honestly don't have time for anything else. While our kids nap, my husband and I normally discuss the morning message or nap too! We avoid talking about work or everyday things. After evening service we normally tailgate in the parking lot eating snacks and enjoying fellowship. I have heard of people having a special toy box just for Sundays, to make it extra special for their kids, but I'm not that organized!

There is an audio sermon by Joey Pipa that I’ve enjoyed listening to, although I have to admit, I haven’t listened to the whole message. Its at http://www.bluelaws.net/audio.asp the title is “The Grand Promise”
 
Swampguy said:
I assume that those that don't go to resturants don't watch sports on tv. I mean aren't those folks working on the sabbath. :um:
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Amen!

Lord's day is set apart for us, so that we may worship and enjoy Him without distraction. Lord's day is a glimpse of what eternity with God will be like.
 
I'll just add that, arguments against keeping the 4th commandment frequently seem to be all about "well what about this hard-to-define circumstance?!?"

and the conclusion seems to be--if I can't make a blanket application of the law as I interpret it in toto, then the Sabbath concept is unworkable in real life; ergo it doesn't apply to me. Then take a prooftext from Romans, and maybe Hebrews, and viola--the Sabbath is a ceremony I may dispense with.

Needless to say, that is not a strong exegetical argument. The propriety of Sabbath-keeping has a strong exegetical tradition, and it should be overthrown only upon equally exacting exegesis. At the very least, even a moderate Sabbath-keeping just by the church would literally transform the whole status quo, and make it unrecognizable vis a vis the present state of disorder.
 
Isaiah 58:13-14 "If you turn back your foot from the Sabbath, from doing your pleasure on my holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight and the holy day of the LORD honorable; if you honor it, not going your own ways, or seeking your own pleasure, or talking idly; then you shall take delight in the LORD, and I will make you ride on the heights of the earth; I will feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father, for the mouth of the LORD has spoken."

How's that for encouragement?
 
Contra_Mundum said:
I'll just add that, arguments against keeping the 4th commandment frequently seem to be all about "well what about this hard-to-define circumstance?!?"

and the conclusion seems to be--if I can't make a blanket application of the law as I interpret it in toto, then the Sabbath concept is unworkable in real life; ergo it doesn't apply to me. Then take a prooftext from Romans, and maybe Hebrews, and viola--the Sabbath is a ceremony I may dispense with.

Needless to say, that is not a strong exegetical argument. The propriety of Sabbath-keeping has a strong exegetical tradition, and it should be overthrown only upon equally exacting exegesis. At the very least, even a moderate Sabbath-keeping just by the church would literally transform the whole status quo, and make it unrecognizable vis a vis the present state of disorder.
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humm...If we didn't have those pesky passages in Acts,Romans,Colossians and Hebrews then all of this argument wouldn't be needed. But then, we'd ALL be Presbyterians wouldn't we! Untill then brother Bruce, please allow me Romans 14 and I'll strive to honor the Lord's day the best I can. I'd really like to do a better job with the 1rst commandment. Please pray for me.:pray2: :candle:
 
Blueridge reformer said:
humm...If we didn't have those pesky passages in Acts,Romans,Colossians and Hebrews then all of this argument wouldn't be needed. But then, we'd ALL be Presbyterians wouldn't we! Untill then brother Bruce, please allow me Romans 14 and I'll strive to honor the Lord's day the best I can. I'd really like to do a better job with the 1rst commandment. Please pray for me.:pray2: :candle:
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I will pray for you James. And I don't mean that in any kind of derogatory way. No one keeps the Sabbath as they should, Presbyterians included. Sabbath observance did not come easily for me until I started viewing it as a delight. I used to consider it a burden, can't lie about that. I became convinced otherwise while attending PCPCA in Dallas. Pastor Ryan had a very high view of worship. If the 1500 people in attendance were not rattling the windows when singing, he would stop the whole congregation and ask "Do you realize, this is the most important thing you will do this week? Worship of the triune God is what you were made for!", and then the windows would start rattling. You see, for us Presbyterian's, at least for this Presbyterian, the service gathered for is strictly worship. It's a "leave your baggage at the door" and "come and worship" the risen Savior and nothing else. When I became convinced of the centrality,importance, and joy of worship on Sundays (a peep into eternity), setting the whole day aside followed almost without struggle. It is truly a day to look forward to.

I am convinced that the keeping of the Sabbath is actually a mindset. I mean hey folks, we get to go be with the people of God and do what we were created for, worship! It doesn't get any better than that!
 
rjlynam said:
I will pray for you James. And I don't mean that in any kind of derogatory way. No one keeps the Sabbath as they should, Presbyterians included. Sabbath observance did not come easily for me until I started viewing it as a delight. I used to consider it a burden, can't lie about that. I became convinced otherwise while attending PCPCA in Dallas. Pastor Ryan had a very high view of worship. If the 1500 people in attendance were not rattling the windows when singing, he would stop the whole congregation and ask "Do you realize, this is the most important thing you will do this week? Worship of the triune God is what you were made for!", and then the windows would start rattling. You see, for us Presbyterian's, at least for this Presbyterian, the service gathered for is strictly worship. It's a "leave your baggage at the door" and "come and worship" the risen Savior and nothing else. When I became convinced of the centrality,importance, and joy of worship on Sundays (a peep into eternity), setting the whole day aside followed almost without struggle. It is truly a day to look forward to.

I am convinced that the keeping of the Sabbath is actually a mindset. I mean hey folks, we get to go be with the people of God and do what we were created for, worship! It doesn't get any better than that!
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I thank you for that brother and let me assure you that I feel the same way about the Lord's day that you do. It is the highlight of my week. Can't wait for it. Really. However, I do not believe it is the sabbath. If I believed in keeping the sabbath I'd keep saturday. You regard it that way and I respect you for it for you do it as unto the Lord. I do not see it as the sabbath but I regard it unto the Lord as well. I do not try to bind anyone's concience to observe the day the way I do but encourage every christian to worship the Lord and set the day aside as much as possible for that alone. I refuse though to try and make up a bunch of regulations that people have to follow to be regarded as spiritual. BTW, I enjoy the fellowship of my Presbyterian friends and worship with them. I even for awhile attended an ARP church. The pastor and I had many discussions about the issue and agreed to disagree. As I said in a previous statement in this thread I wish we could go back to the old blue laws. It would make things a lot easier for everyone!
God bless and keep you my dear brother!
 
mangum said:
I have heard of this one.

Can you recall his conclusions/exhortations?
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Here is a bit from Joey Pipa's book The Lord's Day on the subject of eating out at restaurants:

This means you should not be going into the office or working in the store on Sunday. You ought not to be doing homework or unnecessary housework. Nor should you cause others to work, so you should avoid eating out, going to the grocery store or the mall, or travelling extensively for business. One increasingly frequent violation is Christian business people and pastors who fly on Sundays, either to be home for work by Monday morning or ready to begin business in some other city. Is such travel using the day for God's purposes? (p. 20)
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In another sense, all of us are indirectly responsible for some employees, specifically the people who are working in service industries and businesses. These people in economic terms work as servants for the consumer. I worked my way through college and seminary by selling shoes. My managers constantly stressed that I was a servant to the customer. Likewise those who serve us in the public sector are our servants. We are to protect their Sabbaths as well as our own. Thus we need to avoid shopping, unnecessary dining out, {5} and recreational activities that cause others to work on the Lord's day (this would include those events mediated by television, which necessitates hundreds of employees being at work). It is a lame excuse to say, 'They are going to be there anyway, so it really doesn't matter what I do.' You are commanded not to cause others to do unnecessary work. If you use a person's services, you are partly responsible for that person's working on the Lord's day.

{5} I recognize that those who are on trips may have to eat in a public facility on the Lord's day, even as they may have to stay in a hotel. Interestingly the Puritans recognized this need as well. The Puritan-controlled Parliament in 1644, in a bill to regulate the Sabbath, added: 'Provided, and be it Declared, That nothing in this Ordinance shall extend to the prohibiting or dressing of Meat in Private Families, or the dressing and sale of Victuals in a moderate way in Inns or Victualling Houses, for the use of such as otherwise cannot be provided for...' quoted in [James T.] Dennison [Jr., The Market Day of the Soul: The Puritan Doctrine of the Sabbath in England 1532 - 1700], 94 (p. 50)
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I keep the Sabbath by not going to my regular job, going to church, and enjoying lunch at a restaurant.

Whenever I place standards of conduct in my family for Sabbath keeping, I always break my own standards. This is the nature of law.

For us Sunday is a holiday. It is holy. It is set apart for the Lord. He who eats, eats unto the Lord. He is not sinning.
 
non dignus said:
I keep the Sabbath by not going to my regular job, going to church, and enjoying lunch at a restaurant.

Whenever I place standards of conduct in my family for Sabbath keeping, I always break my own standards. This is the nature of law.

For us Sunday is a holiday. It is holy. It is set apart for the Lord. He who eats, eats unto the Lord. He is not sinning.
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It's not the eating that's the problem. It's the creating of the demand for servants to provide for the eating. Get rid of the demand, and even the godless will close his store on Sunday. Oh, that we as Christians could have such an affect on society. Maybe not yet, but hopefully someday.

I don't see your point about placing standards of conduct. You set the standard, so what standard are you breaking?

As far as the "This is the nature of law." comment.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound?

Rom 7:14 - 8:2 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin. There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.
 
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