Jan 07: The 50 Most Influential Christians in Ame

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Blue Tick said:
I was surprised to see some Calvinists in the group.


The 50 Most Influential Christians in America
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Yeah, but not many of a Calvinist bent on the list.

I was shocked to see Frank Page, the president of the SBC. At this point I don't see him as having much influence on anything. Of course, I'm way up north so maybe that's why I'm not seeing it.

I think history will prove that Dr. Mohler, president of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, is far more of an influence on Southern Baptist life now and well be in the future. He is making a huge impact now and will for years to come. He is only 47 years old. He has and will influence many pastors and other ministers for years and years to come. Likewise, those whom he has influenced will go on influencing others.

Nice to see Joni on the list. I think she's amazing!
 
On the whole, that list is atrocious, yet not surprising given these times.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure how helpful it is that Piper's the top DoGer on there, given that his works seem to be very easily misused by moralistic evangelicals to make a very legalistic framework when his calvinistic soteriology is brushed aside.

That's been some of my observation of observing evangelicals' love for Piper, given that they can't possibly enjoy his adamant and outspoke DoG support. Am I missing the boat here?
 
Theoretical said:
On the whole, that list is atrocious, yet not surprising given these times.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure how helpful it is that Piper's the top DoGer on there, given that his works seem to be very easily misused by moralistic evangelicals to make a very legalistic framework when his calvinistic soteriology is brushed aside.

That's been some of my observation of observing evangelicals' love for Piper, given that they can't possibly enjoy his adamant and outspoke DoG support. Am I missing the boat here?
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The list is atrocious...horrilbe, even sickening.

I don't know much about the misuse of Piper by evangelicals. It seems that most of the Southern Baptists I know aren't aware of Piper. That is amazing given the fact that Piper's church is probably only about a three hour drive from here!

Your term "moralistic evangelicals" is pause for thought. What exactly is one?
 
Ivan said:
The list is atrocious...horrilbe, even sickening.

I don't know much about the misuse of Piper by evangelicals. It seems that most of the Southern Baptists I know aren't aware of Piper. That is amazing given the fact that Piper's church is probably only about a three hour drive from here!

Your term "moralistic evangelicals" is pause for thought. What exactly is one?
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Maybe it's just an odd quirk of my circles in dealing with evangelicalism, but books like Don't Waste Your Life are extremely popular in several campus Bible studies. From seeing how many of them have read Piper uncritically, there seems to be a lot of very easy "latch points" for legalists to try to bind consciences on matters of Christian liberty and wisdom.

First, as a note, for my purposes, I've pretty much rejected the term evangelical to describe myself, as it has become meaningless (in any Biblical sense) and has been thoroughly hijacked by the Warrens and Osteens of the religious world. It has covered too broad a spectrum since last century, and it forces me to explain how I am not like many of the evangelical poster boys on this list.

The biggest issue as to the moralistic side is that while American Christians definitely need to hear the message of just how toxic our culture is, the best way to produce a conviction-based rejection of many of these matters is to teach and encourage lots of grateful wisdom in living as the outgrowth of hope and trust in the Gospel. As to specific moralism, specific suggestions he makes as to things like TV or many other recreations are good criticisms of the society. However, I've seen it (and even to extent done it to myself) to lay out some of his particular oppositions as a checklist of what not to do and how to be a better Christian. On many matters of adiaphora, Piper takes the stricter version of the issue almost every time, and it seems that for some reason, it's very ease to parse up his works to make lots of conscience-binding legalism happen. What Jesus Demands from the World does seem to be a substantially stronger work in providing a helpful "Do this, because you are this in Christ" framework. I've been rather impressed by it so far.

My apologies for the slightly rambling answer, but that's how I've seen his works most abused, and in light of the other people on the list, that is why I am not necessarily encouraged by him being that high up on the list. With that said, my theological disagreements with him aside, I still think it is very much to the credit of John Piper to be able to reach out to evangelicals with the richness of the doctrines of grace.

As a final note, I would not call Piper a "moralistic evangelical", but I do think when his books' teaching value has been abused, it is in an exceptionally legalistic way.
 
Just for clarification, I'm not out to Piper-bash, as I think he's been doing some great work on a host of issues for the glory of God. It is more that I'm worried about just who is latching on to some of his more "practical" books, and as such elevating his popularity unhelpfully.
 
Theoretical wrote:
First, as a note, for my purposes, I've pretty much rejected the term evangelical to describe myself, as it has become meaningless (in any Biblical sense) and has been thoroughly hijacked by the Warrens and Osteens of the religious world. It has covered too broad a spectrum since last century, and it forces me to explain how I am not like many of the evangelical poster boys on this list.
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I agree. Although I'm not sure what label to give myself...perhaps a confessional Baptist, although I'm a Christian too! ;) I cringe when people identify me in some way with a number of those on the list. Then the explaining begins....

Theoretical wrote:
What Jesus Demands from the World does seem to be a substantially stronger work in providing a helpful "Do this, because you are this in Christ" framework. I've been rather impressed by it so far.
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That is one of his works I have not read. Sounds interesting and benefical.

Theoretical wrote:
My apologies for the slightly rambling answer, but that's how I've seen his works most abused, and in light of the other people on the list, that is why I am not necessarily encouraged by him being that high up on the list.
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Understood and I agree.

Theoretical wrote:
As a final note, I would not call Piper a "moralistic evangelical", but I do think when his books' teaching value has been abused, it is in an exceptionally legalistic way.
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...As any author's works can be abused...

Scot, what are you studying in college and what are your future plans? You write well.
 
For some reason I thought it was going to only be a list of pastors or teachers in the church. I was surprised #11 made the list (nothing against him, just surprised).
 
a trinitarian denier like T.D Jakes is on the list. Robert Schuller is on the list But the list makers have no shame. At least out of decency for the 34,000 dead Iraqis and the 3000 dead troops, they should have left Bush off the list.
 
Frankly I'm suprised to see any Calvinists on this list, however I'm glad they're there.(Few though they are)
 
Slippery said:
a trinitarian denier like T.D Jakes is on the list. Robert Schuller is on the list But the list makers have no shame. At least out of decency for the 34,000 dead Iraqis and the 3000 dead troops, they should have left Bush off the list.
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Would you explain what you mean by the last sentence?
 
PODCAST!

WildBoar2.jpg


The boar will take a bite outta them....
 
Slippery said:
a trinitarian denier like T.D Jakes is on the list. Robert Schuller is on the list But the list makers have no shame. At least out of decency for the 34,000 dead Iraqis and the 3000 dead troops, they should have left Bush off the list.
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We're talking of millions of people who are duped into believing garbage that many on the list spew forth day in and day out from a pulpit or a T.V. and ya have go political on us.
 
govols said:
We're talking of millions of people who are duped into believing garbage that many on the list spew forth day in and day out from a pulpit or a T.V. and ya have go political on us.
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I said what I've said. I have not hidden my contempt for the Bush's administration illegal war in Iraq on this forum, and I put the blame of all murders, killings and debaucheries that ensued as a result at his feet.

You call it political, I see him as dangerous as those heresy preachers on TBN, since he is likewise shallow in christian doctrine and christian practice, and it is this shallowness whilst being surrounded by unbelieving counsel that is responsible for the wickedness that he passes as policy. And yes, I have said it, "wicked policies".

BlueRidge can enlighten you further as well as others on this forum that share the same sentiments. But this has been hashed out before concerning the principles of a Just War and if they are ever applicable to this situation.
 
I really cannot believe that making this list are:
Creflo Dollar!
Paula White!
Paul Crouch!
Paul Crouch, Jr!
Joel Osteen!
Schuller!

......give me a break!
I'm not going to waste another second considering that stupid list, or even any talk about it! Absolutely sickening... I'm outta here....!

:banghead:
 
Slippery said:
I said what I've said. I have not hidden my contempt for the Bush's administration illegal war in Iraq on this forum, and I put the blame of all murders, killings and debaucheries that ensued as a result at his feet.

BlueRidge can enlighten you further as well as others on this forum that share the same sentiments. But this has been hashed out before concerning the principles of a Just War and if they are ever applicable to this situation.
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Yeah, I read them. :wow: I give you that, you have not hidden your contempt. I only wish we could have that fervor against sin.
 
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