The people in Hell are evil, but didn't God create Hell?
Are hell and death necessary evils?
Are they evil in and of themselves?
The natural man would say an eternal place of suffering and the ending of human life is evil, thus their conclusion that God is evil. One could see a simple syllogism.
Yes, God created hell. he created everything. One could see a simple syllogism.
Isa. 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.
Amos 4: 9 "Many times I struck your gardens and vineyards,
I struck them with blight and mildew.
Locusts devoured your fig and olive trees,
yet you have not returned to me,"
declares the LORD.
10 "I sent plagues among you
as I did to Egypt.
I killed your young men with the sword,
along with your captured horses.
I filled your nostrils with the stench of your camps,
yet you have not returned to me,"
declares the LORD.
These are evils. The Lord sent them, and made them.
Is human death evil in itself? I answered that in the other thread and here. At this point in the discussion is where you're supposed to propose a counter-argument, not ask me to repeat my previously stated one.
Regarding your syllogism. So what. Anyone can make a syllogism. Is that supposed to scare me into changing my belief? That "someone could make a syllogism." I'm not bothered that someone can put together a simple syllogism. If the premises are false, then what do I care?
Well, I guess since you reject the premise out of hand and have a perfectly formed opinion, that is that!
Next subject! The authority has spoken...
I am still of a mind that death and hell, in and of themselves, while not
pleasant or
desirable are not categorized as inherently evil. I think they are
necessary - tools God uses to enforce His justice and glorify Himself. I'd say it is analogous to the death penalty in our criminal justice system, only perfectly so. The death of a heinous person is not considered evil by God nor Man.
Also, in certain circumstances, death could be a blessed relief.
The problem with all this is that you've not bothered to rebut or interact with any of the arguments I gave....
That I reject a premise doesn't mean you can't offer it in the context of an argument. I'm always open to inspect someone's formal syllogism. Care to put it up, or were you just arguing
ad baculum? My main point was that any goof who has read an introduction ot logic book can make a "syllogism." Look, Islam is true:
1) Either nothing exists or Allah exists.
2) Something exists.
3) Therefore Allah exists.
(If you're adept at creating syllogisms, you'll see that you can make one concluding that I'm a "goof!
)
See, anyone can knock out "syllogisms." But I'm hardly bothered by that fact, so I wonder why you mentioned it. The only thing I can think is that you were trying to fallaciously support your assertions. Give your argument that extra "umph" it was so sorely lacking.
Anyway, God didn't
have to make death his punishment. He
could have sent them immediately to hell. Thus it's not
necessary "to enforce His justice and glorify Himself." Moreover, how about when a saint dies? He doesn't need to "enforce his justice" on them. That's been done in Christ. So, your argument is neither necessary or sufficient.
Jesus weeps when Lazarus dies. He doesn't revel in "divine justice on display." Why did he weep? Why mourn? Why did Mary weep? It would seem that it was because Lazarus was
dead. In and of itself this was bad. It was at
death that they weeped. It needs no other fact in terms of which it is evil. Is is evil.
Death.
Paul speaks directly to death
itself. Paul says that
death stings. He says that
death is an enemy. James seems to imply that the final evil result of sin is death. "Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death." He ends there. No need to go on. Death is evil and bad, because it's death. In heaven there "will be no more
death." Why? One reason is that
death itself is bad, evil, acursed.
The death of an evil person is evil. That doesn't mean it is
immoral or that it can't
also be a punishment. You can add the fallacy of false dichotomy to your violations., as well as
ignoratio elenchi.
Man wasn't made to die... Even heinous men. Man's cheif end is to glorify God and enjoy him
forever. Dying,
in and of itself, negates this foreverness. Therefore, it is inherently evil.
Death
itself is a break in our image bearing nature. We image the
living God. True and final death is an
end, not a
means to an end. This is why God doesn't annhiliate anyone. He even lets "henious"
live forever. They still image God, even in hell. They are man and so by
nature image the
living God. For him to allow them to remain dead mars
his image!
Not only that, but things can be
both intrinsicly
and instrumentally evil (or good). Pain is intrinsically evil, but a sharp pain could cause me to jerk my hand and hit a tack, causing another pain. The first was an instrinsic evil, but also acted as an instrumental evil.
Or, something can be intrinsically evil
and instrumentally good -
harm is an instrinsic evil. Joseph's brothers intended harm, God
used it for good. Indeed, if you grant that there are intrinsic evils, then we can see that they are also instrumental for goods because "In ALL things, God is working them out for good." Therefore, just to point to any instrumental purpose for evil
does not logicaly imply that it is also not intrinsically evil. Thus
none of your arguments even lead to your conclusion - which goes beyond your premises, therefore.
Part of the creation mandate was to multiply goodness. Bring forth life. Adam names his wife "Eve," that is,
life! Is life intrinsically good? Why is death not intrinsically evil?
