Not Traditionally Trained For The Ministry- Help

[JOwen]

Brothers,

I'm doing some research on the subject of pastors who did not receive traditional training, yet were used powerfully in the pastorate. I have thus far:
Lloyd-Jones, Spurgeon, and William Jay. Are there others that you know about in your reading that were not trained by a seminary?

Thanks!

 

[SolaGratia]

John Brown of Haddington, John Bunyan, Augustine

 

[BobVigneault]

I always fashioned myself in the line of Howell Harris but he was never a pastor. He was a traveling preacher in the Welsh revival.

 

[JOwen]

I always fashioned myself in the line of Howell Harris but he was never a pastor. He was a traveling preacher in the Welsh revival.

yes, but a good example of usefulness all the same. Thanks.

 

[timmopussycat]

I always fashioned myself in the line of Howell Harris but he was never a pastor. He was a traveling preacher in the Welsh revival.

And one of my great heroes. Do you know the Lloyd-Jones paper "Howell Harris and Revival" in The Puritans: Their Origins and Successors?

 

[Presbyterian Deacon]

Brothers,

I'm doing some research on the subject of pastors who did not receive traditional training, yet were used powerfully in the pastorate. I have thus far:
Lloyd-Jones, Spurgeon, and William Jay. Are there others that you know about in your reading that were not trained by a seminary?

Thanks!

You can start with the Apostles. "unlearned and ignorant men."
(Acts 4:13).

Was D.L. Moody formally trained? We would disagree with him of course in much of his theology, but there is no denying he was very much used by God in his time.

 

[KMK]

Zwingli had a Masters of Arts. Does that count as formal ministerial training?

 

[Pilgrim]

Brothers,

I'm doing some research on the subject of pastors who did not receive traditional training, yet were used powerfully in the pastorate. I have thus far:
Lloyd-Jones, Spurgeon, and William Jay. Are there others that you know about in your reading that were not trained by a seminary?

Thanks!

You can start with the Apostles. "unlearned and ignorant men."
(Acts 4:13).

Was D.L. Moody formally trained? We would disagree with him of course in much of his theology, but there is no denying he was very much used by God in his time.

I don't think Moody was formally trained and he wasn't formally ordained. Others prominent in history who I understand weren't formally trained include Finney, Scofield, Chafer, Ironside, etc. but I don't know if that's exactly what Jerrold had in mind!

 

[Ivan]

Moody was not formally trained.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

Why should a man be allowed to teach others if he is not first willing to learn himself?

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Brothers,

I'm doing some research on the subject of pastors who did not receive traditional training, yet were used powerfully in the pastorate. I have thus far:
Lloyd-Jones, Spurgeon, and William Jay. Are there others that you know about in your reading that were not trained by a seminary?

Thanks!

Do you mean no academic training or just seminary? Samuel Miller studied under his father for the pastorate and Charles Nisbet at Dickinson College.

 

[Pergamum]

Why should a man be allowed to teach others if he is not first willing to learn himself?

I don't think a willingness to learn is the issue here. The issue is the question, "Learn from where?"

Non-traditionally trained still means trained.



The Third World has many, many examples of locals being raised up by God to take the Gospel to their neighbors and planting churches within their own homes.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

Why should a man be allowed to teach others if he is not first willing to learn himself?

I don't think a willingness to learn is the issue here. The issue is the question, "Learn from where?"

Non-traditionally trained still means trained.



The Third World has many, many examples of locals being raised up by God to take the Gospel to their neighbors and planting churches within their own homes.

How are they trained if they are not trained by other ministers of the word?

 

[JohnOwen007]

Actually, what's really surprising is that Calvin never formally studied theology!

We must remember in this discussion that people like Lloyd-Jones, Spurgeon, and Calvin were freakishly intelligent. It's difficult to emulate such giants.

Blessings.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

Actually, what's really surprising is that Calvin never formally studied theology!

We must remember in this discussion that people like Lloyd-Jones, Spurgeon, and Calvin were freakishly intelligent. It's difficult to emulate such giants.

Blessings.

And didn't they all have a part in setting up colleges for ministers? Clearly their experience was not normative.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

My first Pastor Joe Gwynn whom I consider to be a true Modern day Puritan Pastor.

I would like to ask you if the Spurgeon college grads would be considered as not having been formally trained. Al Martin at Trinity doesn't hand out the sheep skins either.

BTW, I am not fully condoning the practice but do recognize that some men are called to Pastor that have not been formally trained.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

My first Pastor Joe Gwynn whom I consider to be a true Modern day Puritan Pastor.

I would like to ask you if the Spurgeon college grads would be considered as not having been formally trained. Al Martin at Trinity doesn't hand out the sheep skins either.

BTW, I am not fully condoning the practice but do recognize that some men are called to Pastor that have not been formally trained.

Spurgeon and Al Martin's men have been trained by ministers of the word - I would not argue that you need a Seminary degree. However, men in the pastorate who have not been trained should certainly need to be the exception rather than the rule. in my opinion a man would have to have some confidence in his own ability to think he could step into the pastorate without a period of intense formal training.

 

[BobVigneault]

I can help you get your Bible degree in SEVEN DAYS!

Brain surgeon might take a month but hey, it's still faster.

 

[Pergamum]

Why should a man be allowed to teach others if he is not first willing to learn himself?

I don't think a willingness to learn is the issue here. The issue is the question, "Learn from where?"

Non-traditionally trained still means trained.



The Third World has many, many examples of locals being raised up by God to take the Gospel to their neighbors and planting churches within their own homes.

How are they trained if they are not trained by other ministers of the word?

Most were trained by missionaries or by the preachers that were trained by missionaries.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

I don't think a willingness to learn is the issue here. The issue is the question, "Learn from where?"

Non-traditionally trained still means trained.



The Third World has many, many examples of locals being raised up by God to take the Gospel to their neighbors and planting churches within their own homes.

How are they trained if they are not trained by other ministers of the word?

Most were trained by missionaries or by the preachers that were trained by missionaries.

So they were trained then?

 

[Stephen]

The lack of training for a minister is the exception and not the rule. There is no reason a minister should not be trained. I had been a minister for six years in an Arminian group, before I came into the Reformed faith. I had an undergraduate degree in the New Testament, but no seminary training. I went back to school and got my MDiv at Knox Seminary. I am glad I did. Presbyteries are starting to water down the standards and this is a shame. Any man, if he has a calling, can certainly go back and get some training. The average age of seminarians today is 35. I knew men at Knox who were in pastorates and worked hard to achieve an MDiv and they were not young men.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

The lack of training for a minister is the exception and not the rule. There is no reason a minister should not be trained. I had been a minister for six years in an armianian group, before I came into the reformed faith. I had an undergraduate degree in the New Testament, but no seminary. I went back to school and got my MDiv at Knox Seminary. I am glad I did. Presbyteries are starting to water down the standards and this is a shame. Any man, if he has a calling, can certainly go back and get some training. The average age of seminarians today is 35. I knew guys who were in pastorates that went to Knox and got am MDiv. and they were not young men.

in my opinion it would seem that it is prudent that a man not go into the ministry these days until he is his 30s (though that would not rule out starting training in your late 20s); I say this not as an absolute rule, but as a matter of expedience and prudence.

 

[timmopussycat]

in my opinion it would seem that it is prudent that a man not go into the ministry these days until he is his 30s (though that would not rule out starting training in your late 20s); I say this not as an absolute rule, but as a matter of expedience and prudence.

I second that, for a number of reasons.

One is that the man will have a way to make his living apart from the ministry of the word. Paul knew he could support himself apart from being congregationally supported and the man who can do that will not be tempted to fear his congregation as much as the one who has nothing to fall back on.

 

[Stephen]

The lack of training for a minister is the exception and not the rule. There is no reason a minister should not be trained. I had been a minister for six years in an armianian group, before I came into the reformed faith. I had an undergraduate degree in the New Testament, but no seminary. I went back to school and got my MDiv at Knox Seminary. I am glad I did. Presbyteries are starting to water down the standards and this is a shame. Any man, if he has a calling, can certainly go back and get some training. The average age of seminarians today is 35. I knew guys who were in pastorates that went to Knox and got am MDiv. and they were not young men.

in my opinion it would seem that it is prudent that a man not go into the ministry these days until he is his 30s (though that would not rule out starting training in your late 20s); I say this not as an absolute rule, but as a matter of expedience and prudence.

I have seen young men who went into seminary without any life experience and they were puffed up with pride and thought they knew everything. These are the kind of men who would create disasters in a congregation. I am not saying that all young men are like this, for I have seen many godly young men, but many of the things you experience in the ministry require some life experience and level of maturity.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

The lack of training for a minister is the exception and not the rule. There is no reason a minister should not be trained. I had been a minister for six years in an armianian group, before I came into the reformed faith. I had an undergraduate degree in the New Testament, but no seminary. I went back to school and got my MDiv at Knox Seminary. I am glad I did. Presbyteries are starting to water down the standards and this is a shame. Any man, if he has a calling, can certainly go back and get some training. The average age of seminarians today is 35. I knew guys who were in pastorates that went to Knox and got am MDiv. and they were not young men.

in my opinion it would seem that it is prudent that a man not go into the ministry these days until he is his 30s (though that would not rule out starting training in your late 20s); I say this not as an absolute rule, but as a matter of expedience and prudence.

I have seen young men who went into seminary without any life experience and they were puffed up with pride and thought they knew everything. These are the kind of men who would create disasters in a congregation. I am not saying that all young men are like this, for I have seen many godly young men, but many of the things you experience in the ministry require some life experience and level of maturity.

I seen many examples of this myself, while it is not an absolute rule, it would seem that most young men in the Reformed world think that they know everything, when in fact they know nothing.

 

[Stephen]

I agree that there may need to be a move back to the old Puritan model of training, like Randy was alluding to earlier. I had the experience of good ministers who trained me before seminary, so I have seen the value of sitting under a godly teacher. In many Presbyterian denominations men are not allowed to enroll in seminary without a recommendation from their session and the Presbytery, and an internship. I have a real desire in my ministry to take a man, who has gifts, and train him in ministry, but he would still be required to receive formal training. Unfortunetly, I do not have anyone like that in my present ministry.

 

[Pergamum]

How are they trained if they are not trained by other ministers of the word?

Most were trained by missionaries or by the preachers that were trained by missionaries.

So they were trained then?

Yes, they were trained but they were not "traditionally trained" as per the OP.


Although, I guess training by personal mentorship by a preacher might be more "traditional" than a seminary perhaps....just a thought.

 

[Kevin]

I agree that there may need to be a move back to the old Puritan model of training, like Randy was alluding to earlier. I had the experience of good ministers who trained me before seminary, so I have seen the value of sitting under a godly teacher. In many Presbyterian denominations men are not allowed to enroll in seminary without a recommendation from their session and the Presbytery, and an internship. I have a real desire in my ministry to take a man, who has gifts, and train him in ministry, but he would still be required to receive formal training. Unfortunetly, I do not have anyone like that in my present ministry.

Stephen, you should call Jack W. I bet he has someone he could pair you up with!

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

Most were trained by missionaries or by the preachers that were trained by missionaries.

So they were trained then?

Yes, they were trained but they were not "traditionally trained" as per the OP.


Although, I guess training by personal mentorship by a preacher might be more "traditional" than a seminary perhaps....just a thought.

Being trained by other ministers is morally equivalent to being trained at a Seminary, only a Seminary has better facilities.

 

[JohnOwen007]

Brain surgeon might take a month but hey, it's still faster.

Brain Surgeon or Charles Spurgeon?