Is the Reformed Faith dying?

[VilnaGaon]

I know this may seem like blasphemy to many PBers, but is the Reformed Faith dying? It seems like that in Toronto. A dear Reformed Minister friend of mine recently moved his church of 8 members from a rented room in a Community Centre to the basement of his home----- not enough members to justify the expense of a rented room. This may seem isolated but set in the backdrop of at least 2 Reformed Church closures in the last 2 years, declining membership in Reformed Churches, explosive growth of Charismatic churches, I think we Reformed are a dying breed.
A Reformed Minister who agrees with my assesment, blames the situation on the lack of reaching out to the Unsaved by the Reformed Community. I think that is true. I also blame the decline in Reformed Publishing. Like many people in Reformed Churches, I came from a Pentecostal background. I was converted to the Reformed faith through reading Reformed Literature, mainly the Puritans. But today, it is getting harder to find good Reformed Literature.

We Reformed should learn from the Orthodox Jews, the importance of keeping our Faith alive through constantly reprinting the Classics. Go into any Orthodox Jewish Bookstore and you will see shelves of Jewish classics like the Shulchan Aruch, the various Midrashes, hundreds of Torah Commentaries by Rabbis from the past. For such a tiny community, the Orthodox Jews have managed to maintain in print their written heritage and thus pass it on. It is one of the 613 commandments to purchase and maintain Torah Literature.
Perhaps we Reformed should do likewise.

 

[PresbyDane]

Well to me it seems like it is growing, there are not a lot of us here but in small numbers we seems to grow and more and more young people are leaning is this direction over here, and I thought this was the general way in the U.S. as well.
But I am looking forward to hearing what people say.

 

[steven-nemes]

It may be so in Toronto, but that's not at all (it seems to me) what is going in America. In fact Time Magazine recently released a series of the 10 most influential ideas in America right now, #3 being "The New Calvinism". Of course Calvinism is not all there is to the reformed faith, but still important. I have noticed among my friends from my church that there is an increasing interest in the 5 points and a growing group of "Calvinist rebels".

 

[Oecolampadius]

It may be so in Toronto, but that's not at all (it seems to me) what is going in America. In fact Time Magazine recently released a series of the 10 most influential ideas in America right now, #3 being "The New Calvinism". Of course Calvinism is not all there is to the reformed faith, but still important. I have noticed among my friends from my church that there is an increasing interest in the 5 points and a growing group of "Calvinist rebels".

I wouldn't say that the Reformed faith is dying in America but I also wouldn't recommend that we view this "New Calvinism" as support for the fact that the Reformed are still very much alive and kicking in this country. Now, this may be a bit off topic but we really need to be careful about this "New Calvinism." If we're going to follow Mark Driscoll (one of those mentioned in the Time Magazine article) in his description of New Calvinism in terms of what it is and what it is not, I believe that many of those who have a deeper and more confessional understanding of the reformed faith will be disappointed with this "New Calvinism." According to Mark Driscoll, New Calvinism is different from Old Calvinism.

New Calvinism versus Old Calvinism by Mark Driscoll

BTW, I don't agree with Mark Driscoll's description of Old Calvinism. I believe that his description of Old Calvinism confuses Calvinists (reformed folks) with other groups especially the fundamentalists.

For those who wish to learn more about this matter, I recommend that you check out R. Scott Clark's blog:
Heidelblog - Calvinism Old and New

 

[Prufrock]

No, nor will it before the day in which Christ returns. The true church may be more or less visible at times, and its purity may be greater or smaller in different times and places; but it will never die. It might appear that it can't be seen in some times or places, but like Luther shouting forth in the night it will reappear.

 

[Scott1]

Well, we are not good at discerning the face of our times (any of us).

But no, the reformed faith is not dying out. It is a faithful biblical representation of God's covenant people and there is no way it will die out, because God will always have a people.

It seems there is a consolidation going on within the visible church universal- there is large scale falling away within broad evangelicalism, but an increase in reformed theology. It's really catching on in some places. God is calling out the lack of genuine spiritual regeneration in those who would profess Him.

It seems good and evil go forward, side by side, and we can never quite grasp it in the context of our times. God is, of course, working it all to His own good and glorious ends.

Worldwide, there is definite growth in those who profess Christ. A speaker a few weeks ago gave statistics Christianity is growing faster than any other world religion [really(!)].

At the same time that a basic Gospel is getting out, there is a real lack of discipleship in God's Word (e.g. " a thousand miles wide, and one inch deep").

There is a real need to get the Gospel out and to translate the Word of God into every tongue and to disciple the people who are "professing."

 

[Reformed Thomist]

It can seem that way, but there are a good number of really strong, thriving Reformed churches in the Greater Toronto Area. You just have to hunt them down; while there are a couple right downtown (the old-school Jarvis Street Baptist and the 'Tim Keller-esque' Grace Toronto PCA are a ten minute walk or so apart, quite close to subway stations), unfortunately most are way out in the public transit hell of suburbia.

 

[OPC'n]

no

 

[Gesetveemet]

One of the moderators has said well. Also to be truly Reformed is only possible in the way of genuine and personal regeneration and conversion.

The Belgic Confession of Faith, Article XXVII
The Catholic Christian Church

We believe and profess one catholic or universal Church, which is a holy congregation of true Christian believers, all expecting their salvation in Jesus Christ, being washed by His blood, sanctified and sealed by the Holy Spirit.
This Church has been from the beginning of the world, and will be to the end thereof; which is evident from this that Christ is an eternal King, which without subjects He cannot be. And this holy Church is preserved or supported by God against the rage of the whole world; though it sometimes for a while appears very small, and in the eyes of men to be reduced to nothing; as during the perilous reign of Ahab the Lord reserved unto Him seven thousand men who had not bowed their knees to Baal.
Furthermore, this holy Church is not confined, bound, or limited to a certain place or to certain persons, but is spread and dispersed over the whole world; and yet is joined and united with heart and will, by the power of faith, in one and the same Spirit.

 

[Houston E.]

A dear Reformed Minister friend of mine recently moved his church of 8 members from a rented room in a Community Centre to the basement of his home----- not enough members to justify the expense of a rented room.

So many times though we look to the circumstances to draw our conclusions. Our church went down to 4 members, moved from rented building to meeting in a home. Anyone on the outside would have said God was through with this work (many did). Four years later, our doctrinal stance has "reformed" and we cram almost twenty in a home each Sunday.

 

[steven-nemes]

To Chippy: while it is true that the "new Calvinism" is not entirely Reformed, it is nonetheless an important stepping stone in life of any recent "convert" to accepting all of the traditional Reformed doctrines. I would say that the five-points are generally accepted before Covenant theology or other more complex doctrines are accepted, and generally (because perhaps most popular 5-point Calvinists also accept the other doctrines), the guy you learned the 5-points from will be the guy who teaches you <insert Reformed doctrine here>. Now, if there is an increase in interest in the 5-points, then perhaps there can be an increased interest in other Reformed doctrines, as well, as people further their studies.

 

[Spinningplates2]

The Reformed Faith is not dying, it is not even sick.

 

[WaywardNowHome]

The Reformed faith is very much alive in Christ.

 

[BaptisticFire2007]

Don't Think So...

I really don't think the Reformed faith is dying, especially out here in the UK. Two years ago, I didn't know a thing about Reformed theology - and I wasn't really looking to. But eventually I found a Reformed Baptist church sold on solid doctrine and evangelism and it's growing.

I do think that the Reformed faith is in a state of transition. Young people are picking up the mantle and running with it - and I'm not talking about the New Calvinism, either. They're picking up the Puritans, the Reformers, the Devers, Mohlers, Pipers, etc. and they are running with it. I can't speak for Canada but I will say give it time and we will definitely see a harvest.

 

[VilnaGaon]

It can seem that way, but there are a good number of really strong, thriving Reformed churches in the Greater Toronto Area. You just have to hunt them down; while there are a couple right downtown (the old-school Jarvis Street Baptist and the 'Tim Keller-esque' Grace Toronto PCA are a ten minute walk or so apart, quite close to subway stations), unfortunately most are way out in the public transit hell of suburbia.

Jarvis Street Baptist is one of the few bona-fide Reformed Churches left but NOT Grace Toronto PCA. A church which has "The Shack" on its recommended reading list is anything but Reformed.
A defining characteristic of a Reformed Church would be doctrinal fidelity to TULIP. I am flexible as to worship styles so long as it is Christ-Centred not the man-centred worship in much of CCM.

-----Added 5/25/2009 at 07:33:18 EST-----

By the way Steven-Nemes, I love your Avatar.

 

[Scott1]

Let me also add, it has almost become "cool" to be 'reformed.'

A friend told me a few years ago Dr. Sproul's books were banned at the Dallas Theological Seminary bookstore- now they are prominently on display, and a best seller!

 

[Damon Rambo]

I actually read a article, that said that Reformed Churches in the U.S. were the only Churches, within "orthodox" Christianity, that were growing: at a rate of about 5 percent per year.

I think that people have realized the danger the modern "Trendy Gospel" has placed the Church in, and they are beginning to come to their senses.

 

[LeeJUk]

I think that through sermonaudio and to a large extent Paul Washer's popularity and effectiveness, People are coming to the reformed faith. I know that's why I did.

 

[Reformed Thomist]

Jarvis Street Baptist is one of the few bona-fide Reformed Churches left but NOT Grace Toronto PCA. A church which has "The Shack" on its recommended reading list is anything but Reformed.
A defining characteristic of a Reformed Church would be doctrinal fidelity to TULIP. I am flexible as to worship styles so long as it is Christ-Centred not the man-centred worship in much of CCM.

Really? I have seen Grace Toronto's pastor, Dan MacDonald, refer to himself as a "reformed, Van Tillian, five point Calvinist Piper-head" (direct quote) on a blog, and the church does claim to adhere to the Westminster Confession on its website.

 

[Backwoods Presbyterian]

One thing I have noticed in my short life is that there is not a necessarily 1:1 correlation between what someone says they do on a website and what they do in practice.

 

[Dragoon]

After talking with some of my “Reformed” church friends, and teachers, it would seem that you are correct, the “Reformed” churches in Ontario are slowly dyeing out, but they are being replaced by reformed Baptist Churches.

 

[jwithnell]

Not on my watch it isn't dying!

 

[VilnaGaon]

Jarvis Street Baptist is one of the few bona-fide Reformed Churches left but NOT Grace Toronto PCA. A church which has "The Shack" on its recommended reading list is anything but Reformed.
A defining characteristic of a Reformed Church would be doctrinal fidelity to TULIP. I am flexible as to worship styles so long as it is Christ-Centred not the man-centred worship in much of CCM.

Really? I have seen Grace Toronto's pastor, Dan MacDonald, refer to himself as a "reformed, Van Tillian, five point Calvinist Piper-head" (direct quote) on a blog, and the church does claim to adhere to the Westminster Confession on its website.

You are right brother, I apologise, the Grace Toronto that I looked up is in the West Hill area and it has a Rev. Mona Scrivens as minister.

 

[Ivan]

Let me also add, it has almost become "cool" to be 'reformed.'

A friend told me a few years ago Dr. Sproul's books were banned at the Dallas Theological Seminary bookstore- now they are prominently on display, and a best seller!

That is music to my ears!

 

[awretchsavedbygrace]

No! It is very much alive. Young people are turning to the doctrines of Grace. Go to some of these conferences, alot of them are around my age. Early 20's. It is sir, by The Grace Of God, very much alive!

 

[Guido's Brother]

Isn't there a stable, and slowly growing URC mission work or two in Toronto (GTA)? My understanding is that the OPC also has a mission work there that's also supported by the CanRC in Richmond Hill. Maybe you were referring to one of these mission works?

 

[Skyler]

I know this may seem like blasphemy to many PBers, but is the Reformed Faith dying? It seems like that in Toronto. A dear Reformed Minister friend of mine recently moved his church of 8 members from a rented room in a Community Centre to the basement of his home----- not enough members to justify the expense of a rented room. This may seem isolated but set in the backdrop of at least 2 Reformed Church closures in the last 2 years, declining membership in Reformed Churches, explosive growth of Charismatic churches, I think we Reformed are a dying breed.
A Reformed Minister who agrees with my assesment, blames the situation on the lack of reaching out to the Unsaved by the Reformed Community. I think that is true. I also blame the decline in Reformed Publishing. Like many people in Reformed Churches, I came from a Pentecostal background. I was converted to the Reformed faith through reading Reformed Literature, mainly the Puritans. But today, it is getting harder to find good Reformed Literature.

We Reformed should learn from the Orthodox Jews, the importance of keeping our Faith alive through constantly reprinting the Classics. Go into any Orthodox Jewish Bookstore and you will see shelves of Jewish classics like the Shulchan Aruch, the various Midrashes, hundreds of Torah Commentaries by Rabbis from the past. For such a tiny community, the Orthodox Jews have managed to maintain in print their written heritage and thus pass it on. It is one of the 613 commandments to purchase and maintain Torah Literature.
Perhaps we Reformed should do likewise.

Dying? No. The true faith never dies out completely.

Fluctuating? Yes. Local fluctuations in the numbers of those who hold to the true Doctrines of Grace have always been happening and will continue to happen.

 

[Scott1]

You might helpful this web site of denominations in North American Presbyterian and Reformed Council (NAPARC). Prayerfully and carefully research your many options...http://www.naparc.org/Members.html

and be encouraged in the Lord!

 

[Stephen L Smith]

Bavink's article on the future of Calvinism, written in 1894, is quite insightful and interesting. Princeton Seminary--Library

 

[Blue Tick]

The "reformed" faith has been going strong for 6000-8000 years strong. Depends on your creation view. The reformed faith is not a compartmentilized version of Christianity that happened to pop on the scene 500 years ago. It is Christianity. To be reformed is semper reformanda (always reforming) back to the Word of God. Therefore, to say the reformed faith is dying is like asking is Christianity dying.