Public or Homeschool?

[calgal]

This is a conversation that should remain between the man, the woman and her pastor and/or parents. Not strangers on the internets.

I completely agree that their pastors and parents should be active in this discussion. However, many of the folks here, strangers or not, are very wise. Their insights are worth considering, even if just a little. Ultimately Ewen and his girlfriend will need to decide what to do; until then, heeding Scripture's wisdom of seeking many counselors would certainly not be a bad thing. (And I am not speaking of the poll results but of the thoughts of experienced married folk.)

Counselors who know both persons involved and have the whole story would be far more valuable. Everyone has a personal bias in one direction or the other. There are some amazing physicians who are also mommies BTW.

 

[HokieAirman]

I'm gonna hop in and hop out cause the little guy on my avatar is restless in his crib...

Definitely agree with all those who say work it out before you're married...put the kids before yourselves, and if you can't work it out, don't get married; it's not the right thing.

That said, it is NOT a wife's duty to homeschool. Often times, the husband delegates it completely to her because she has the time and expertise. Ultimately, the father bears the responsibility for his childrens' education. In my humble opinion, he should be spending time with the kids after work, or during the day if he's so blessed, teaching them life skills, and/or school subjects as well.

Take care; you have a difficult situation ahead.

 

[kvanlaan]

Ultimately, the father bears the responsibility for his childrens' education.

Yep, oh so true. I got a back-handed compliment from my 7-year-old this past weekend, told to me by a third party. This friend of the family was talking with Izaak about life in our crazy home and he said "oh, my mom does all the work at home, my Dad just reads the Bible." Fine by me. When my daughter draws pictures of me, it is usually with the family Bible on my lap. That is my highest calling, and an invaluable part of the children's education.

(I do help with math, too, and I'm the plumber/carpenter/electrician but Elizabeth is your typical homeschooling supermom. Feeding and educating ten children is a task which I think would put just about any CEO in his place.)

 

[Scot]

You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise. You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.
Deuteronomy 6:5-9

It's kinda hard to do this if you give your children up to the state most of the year for their education.

I highly recommend getting "Bound for Glory" and "Training Up Children" By R.C. Jr.

 

[AThornquist]

Counselors who know both persons involved and have the whole story would be far more valuable.

Sure. Of course, several folks here quoted Scripture, did they not? We should consider first Scripture and then how we can conform to it, not vice versa. In other words, knowing every detail is not necessary when all people are doing is giving the man biblical food for thought. He is going to make his own decisions.

This is simply a message board. The opinions given here should carry the weight of a message board opinion (i.e. not much). However, if in the message board the Words of God are put forth they are as real and true here as in the pulpit.

All that said, I don't think anyone here would not be hoping and expecting that he receive counsel from those who know the situation personally.

 

[Knoxienne]

You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise. You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.
Deuteronomy 6:5-9

It's kinda hard to do this if you give your children up to the state most of the year for their education.

I highly recommend getting "Bound for Glory" and "Training Up Children" By R.C. Jr.

Amen. That scripture is clear.

 

[ewenlin]

Hi all,

First of all thanks for all the replies. There have been much great counsel, more than I have thanks for. Both me and my girlfriend read this thread and appreciate every comment.

There have been much to think about and certainly more to discuss. We are not going to get married for another 2 more years at least even if we do get married. We're just working out these issues not wanting to dive into it clueless and since PB has as Andrew said, very wise men, we're here. Be assured that no decisions will be made based upon an Internet poll (that's just silly), there's still the Elders and the Pastors (whom her dad is one).

We were kind of locked in our debate and decided to get a little PB nudge. We are very clear about our roles as Man/Woman and Husband/Wife in their theoretical precepts. The question I'm thinking of now is this, can a woman be a MD and still fulfill her obligations as homemaker etc? Having someone else homeschool our kids sounds terrific, it's something we have never heard of.

I should have structured the poll as Homeschool vs Institutionalized School. There is basically zero difference in terms of Christian values between public schools and private Christian schools where I live. I come from one of the most prestigious private Christian schools and it should have been "Christian" School if you know what I mean. This is why I'm so determined on homeschooling.

This brings another question. What is required of, in terms of hours spent, in fulfilling our responsibilities in rightly teaching and raising our children? Assuming homeschooling is the way to go. I think being a full-time homemaker is the highest calling for every woman and hold every one in the highest regard. Nevertheless I have no problems with my future wife going out to work. I do not intend to debate this here. The issue arises when kids come into the picture. Can she then be justified being a MD at the same time raising our kids? Supposing she works 4 hours a day and spends the rest of the time at home?

By the way, God has been gracious in that we are both halfway through college with zero debt. Yes, she's 4th year Med student with zero student loan debt. God is GOOD eh.

 

[Gloria]

Yo,

Please homeschool them babies.... If you can't do it then pay someone to do it for you. There are plenty of Reformed Presbyterian and Baptist saints who homeschool their children and would gladly take your children in as well. Look them up in your local assembly....LOL....

Tis is true that some parents shouldn't be homeschooling b/c they don't have the giftings of teaching but that doesn't mean they are without friends and collegues who do.

The most important thing is that the children are raised in God fearing and accurate schooling...Nothing american...LOL...

Grace and Peace,
seal

Seal...This is a great point that I've honestly never thought of... Some would do it as hospitality BUT paying a homeschooling family to include your children with their children could probably help in the area of supplemental income for that family. This is also awesome way to help out single parents in the body of Christ. WTG!

 

[kvanlaan]

Seal...This is a great point that I've honestly never thought of... Some would do it as hospitality BUT paying a homeschooling family to include your children with their children could probably help in the area of supplemental income for that family. This is also awesome way to help out single parents in the body of Christ. WTG!

My wife did this for a missionary family in China for a year. It can work, but it does take discipline on the part of the parents, too.

 

[Knoxienne]

Seal...This is a great point that I've honestly never thought of... Some would do it as hospitality BUT paying a homeschooling family to include your children with their children could probably help in the area of supplemental income for that family. This is also awesome way to help out single parents in the body of Christ. WTG!

My wife did this for a missionary family in China for a year. It can work, but it does take discipline on the part of the parents, too.

True - I think the key word here is discipline. As a modern Christian people, we lack that. And because we lack discipline and responsibility, we have all the societal problems we do. They could easily be solved if we had more discipline and practiced responsibility.

 

[DanMcCormack]

Seal...This is a great point that I've honestly never thought of... Some would do it as hospitality BUT paying a homeschooling family to include your children with their children could probably help in the area of supplemental income for that family. This is also awesome way to help out single parents in the body of Christ. WTG!

I think whoever would be paid for teaching services would need to look at state laws before signing up for such an arrangement.

In flight instruction, only a Certified Flight Instructor can be paid to instruct pilots. Those doing otherwise are subject to severe sanctions.

I'm sure some states link pay to various requirements.

 

[LawrenceU]

In Alabama only the parent can teach the child unless it is an occasional co-op class. Technically the parent is a teacher in that situation. If someone other than the parent is the teacher then it falls under another regulation other than the non-existent home school law which is actually a church school law. In Alabama other than parent individuals who teach your child must be certified.

Private Tutor Option. Under § 16-28-5, the children in a home school must be instructed by a competent private tutor. Under this statute:
a. The teacher must be state certified.
b. The certified teacher must teach “for at least three hours a day for 140 days each calendar year, between the hours of 8:00 a.m. and 4:00 p.m.”
c. The tutor must file with the county superintendent, a statement showing the child to be instructed, the subjects taught, and period of instruction. The tutor must keep a register of the child’s work showing daily hours of instruction and attendance and shall make such reports as the State Board of Education may require.

 

[Honor]

I think this is the best website for the legal side of things
http://www.hslda.org/Default.asp?bhcp=1

 

[Montanablue]

HSLDA basically saved my family once. They are fantastic.

 

[Damon Rambo]

My friend,

It seems that what you are looking for in a wife, and the woman you have chosen, are not compatible. Homeschooling Children and attending Medical School are mutually exclusive.

If she truly feels that she is called by God to be a doctor, and you truly feel that you desire children, and this is not optional, then my suggestion would be to break off the engagement. Forcing her to give up her dream (as opposed to her willingly giving it up) will make her resent you. And as far as you go, the last thing you want to do is couple yourself to a woman who puts her career ahead of her family.

 

[JoyFullMom]

Seal,

I encourage you to check the homeschool laws in FL. They can change by the time you are ready to HS, but right now, I believe you are required to either register with the state or with an umbrella school. That is how they know whom is teaching whom....

I can recommend HomeLife Academy - Welcome They serve as an umbrella school for FL.

 

[greenbaggins]

Hi all,

First of all thanks for all the replies. There have been much great counsel, more than I have thanks for. Both me and my girlfriend read this thread and appreciate every comment.

There have been much to think about and certainly more to discuss. We are not going to get married for another 2 more years at least even if we do get married. We're just working out these issues not wanting to dive into it clueless and since PB has as Andrew said, very wise men, we're here. Be assured that no decisions will be made based upon an Internet poll (that's just silly), there's still the Elders and the Pastors (whom her dad is one).

We were kind of locked in our debate and decided to get a little PB nudge. We are very clear about our roles as Man/Woman and Husband/Wife in their theoretical precepts. The question I'm thinking of now is this, can a woman be a MD and still fulfill her obligations as homemaker etc? Having someone else homeschool our kids sounds terrific, it's something we have never heard of.

I should have structured the poll as Homeschool vs Institutionalized School. There is basically zero difference in terms of Christian values between public schools and private Christian schools where I live. I come from one of the most prestigious private Christian schools and it should have been "Christian" School if you know what I mean. This is why I'm so determined on homeschooling.

This brings another question. What is required of, in terms of hours spent, in fulfilling our responsibilities in rightly teaching and raising our children? Assuming homeschooling is the way to go. I think being a full-time homemaker is the highest calling for every woman and hold every one in the highest regard. Nevertheless I have no problems with my future wife going out to work. I do not intend to debate this here. The issue arises when kids come into the picture. Can she then be justified being a MD at the same time raising our kids? Supposing she works 4 hours a day and spends the rest of the time at home?

By the way, God has been gracious in that we are both halfway through college with zero debt. Yes, she's 4th year Med student with zero student loan debt. God is GOOD eh.

What is required? Always more than you think is required ahead of time. Children are energy black holes. If you have a single spare calorie of energy left, the child nabs it and says, "mine!" along with everything else in the house, of course. It may be possible for the occasional woman who is hyper organized and absolutely fanatical about schedules to do both a career and a home, but I still don't think she can do both well. Titus 2 seems to speak against this kind of reasoning. At any rate, I cannot stress too highly that if a woman becomes a mother, that is her highest calling aside from being a wife. If your fiance becomes a doctor, then the priority Must be like this: God, husband, children, doctor. If she is not comfortable with that order, then it won't work to have children. Not to have children in a marriage, to my mind, is against the cultural mandate of Genesis 1-2.

Ben is certainly right in the first response. You have to sort out what your marriage is going to look like before you figure out how children are going to fit into that, although the two questions are not entirely separable, since the picture of marriage also includes how children are going to fit into the picture.

 

[jollymommy4]

In our homeschooling journey we have met many families who home school creatively. We once had friends who were both active duty military and the wife was a physician with a commitment to pay back for med school; she had a desire to be home but legally could not.

They had four children and hired a nanny who came to stay with the children during the day. The parents came home around 4pm and home schooled from 6-10pm at night. The kids slept late in the morning until about 9 or 10am. The nanny brought the kids to our PE classes and on field trips.

In another family the Mom was also a physician, she worked three days a week while Dad was home with the children and Dad worked three days while Mom was home with them. Dad taught certain subjects on his days and Mom taught certain ones on her days.

If you and your future wife both have a heart to home school your children there is not one right way and it can be done.

 

[Wannabee]

I'm going to pile on Lane's comments for a bit of clarity.

In his list of priorities there is an unspoken understanding that, unfortunately, is often misunderstood or set aside altogether. We simply don't think about it, but it is fundamental and necessary. Jesus is our first priority. Our second priority is Jesus in our relationship with our spouse. Our third is Jesus in our relationship with our children. Fourth is Jesus in our relationship with our church; job, etc. Jesus is all, undergirds all, is over all and in all. We are to do all things "in Christ" and "as unto Christ." In other words our first priority necessarily dictates and is inherent in all priorities. We understand this but often fail to think this way in a practical sense.

As for legalities, our first priority is the growth in godliness of our children. If laws are in the way then we are not bound by them. But, we must be prudent and gracious and strive to keep within the limits of the laws as best as we are able and without contention. Deut. 6 and Eph 6 make our responsibilities pretty clear. If government laws are in the way of raising our children in godliness then our choice is clear.

As for time invested in home education, it's both less and more than public. With public you're stuck with their schedule and their curriculum. With home education everything is a learning experience. A road trip is a geography and culture lesson. A trip to the store is social studies and any other thing that might pop up. Everything we do is a study of creation. Home education is a dynamic, not a curriculum. And you can structure it according to your vision for your children. Central to our education of our sons was teaching them how to learn. We fed them books, more books and even more books. This, and they read through the Bible in a structured fashion every 9 months. Structuring their education was not more time consuming. We found that not having to fit the public school schedule actually saved us an amazing amount of time because we no longer had to worry about being home at certain times. Our sons were trained to work around the house. At about 10 and 12 they could lay out a barbed wire fence sure and straight. They became blessings in our homes because there were not black holes into which everything was sunk (when they're young they are, as Lane pointed out), but because they became members of the family who were productive and shared in the work load. Now, with them gone, I have more work to do. It's a trade off, because before I took that time to instruct them.
All of this is part of your vision for your family. What are your goals? Where are you going and how do you get there? Establish a vision. Make sure your vision is beyond yourself, your children and even your time. Make it multigenerational and dynastic. Build a foundation upon which your children can rise above you while establishing a similar vision so that they desire the same for their children and are equipped to promote that. With each successive generation the bar can be raised, if we establish this vision now rather than look back with regret.

May Christ bless you and your fiance as you consider your future for the glory of God.

 

[dr_parsley]

It may be possible for the occasional woman who is hyper organized and absolutely fanatical about schedules to do both a career and a home, but I still don't think she can do both well. Titus 2 seems to speak against this kind of reasoning. At any rate, I cannot stress too highly that if a woman becomes a mother, that is her highest calling aside from being a wife. If your fiance becomes a doctor, then the priority Must be like this: God, husband, children, doctor. If she is not comfortable with that order, then it won't work to have children.

Isn't that order the same for a father? God, wife, children, career. If a man can't fit together his career and his family and keep the order, then he needs to change his priorities.

 

[sealdaSupralapsarian]

Seal,

I encourage you to check the homeschool laws in FL. They can change by the time you are ready to HS, but right now, I believe you are required to either register with the state or with an umbrella school. That is how they know whom is teaching whom....

I can recommend HomeLife Academy - Welcome They serve as an umbrella school for FL.

Cool Beans..... Thank you....I'm not an Anarchrist but I can't stand when the state has to is all up in your kool-aid. It's none of their business who teaches my child what. The only thing they should be worried about is fixing the pot hole around the corner from me.

Can they regulate who teaches my child greek too?...LOL....

I've heard of this group before I think and they are doing an awesome service against the statist.

Grace and Peace,
seal

 

[dr_parsley]

My friend,

It seems that what you are looking for in a wife, and the woman you have chosen, are not compatible. Homeschooling Children and attending Medical School are mutually exclusive.

If she truly feels that she is called by God to be a doctor, and you truly feel that you desire children, and this is not optional, then my suggestion would be to break off the engagement. Forcing her to give up her dream (as opposed to her willingly giving it up) will make her resent you. And as far as you go, the last thing you want to do is couple yourself to a woman who puts her career ahead of her family.

My wife is a doctor (working) and (contributes to) homeschooling.

 

[sealdaSupralapsarian]

Seal...This is a great point that I've honestly never thought of... Some would do it as hospitality BUT paying a homeschooling family to include your children with their children could probably help in the area of supplemental income for that family. This is also awesome way to help out single parents in the body of Christ. WTG!

Sup Gloria how's the hubby? Anywho, it can be a good supplemental income for a family. However some people are bringing up state laws that may prohibit such a practice. Yet.... I'm going to need some Constitutional Proof to show where I have to report every cent I earn to the state or Federal Gov't....LOL.... I make beats as a producer. If I sell a beat (I haven't yet) where in the constitution do I have to report that money to the Federal Bully...I mean Gov't... reporting the income earned.... I believe that is quite ridiculous and highly unlawful both Constituationally and especially Biblically.... Paleo libertarian here....LOL....

Grace and Peace,
seal

 

[dr_parsley]

Seal...This is a great point that I've honestly never thought of... Some would do it as hospitality BUT paying a homeschooling family to include your children with their children could probably help in the area of supplemental income for that family. This is also awesome way to help out single parents in the body of Christ. WTG!

I think whoever would be paid for teaching services would need to look at state laws before signing up for such an arrangement.

In flight instruction, only a Certified Flight Instructor can be paid to instruct pilots. Those doing otherwise are subject to severe sanctions.

I'm sure some states link pay to various requirements.

Some places (such as South Africa) link requirements to teaching other people's children. As soon as you include children not your own you have to register as a school, with all the consequences that follow...

I think a better way (if they can afford it) would be to employ a home-schooling nanny; perhaps an older lady.

 

[DanMcCormack]

If I sell a beat (I haven't yet) where in the constitution do I have to report that money to the Federal Bully...I mean Gov't... reporting the income earned.... I believe that is quite ridiculous and highly unlawful both Constituationally and especially Biblically....

Sadly, the 16th Amendment to the Constitution is the Constitution.

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

 

[sealdaSupralapsarian]

If I sell a beat (I haven't yet) where in the constitution do I have to report that money to the Federal Bully...I mean Gov't... reporting the income earned.... I believe that is quite ridiculous and highly unlawful both Constituationally and especially Biblically....

Sadly, the 16th Amendment to the Constitution is the Constitution.

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

Perhaps you are a bit confused here. Where does it say I have to report all the income I make. I.E. If I cut my neighbors yard and they pay me for it. Where does it say I have to report that? Therefore if I homeschool my child and a neighbors child, where does it say I have to report that? Perhaps some have read it in there....lol...

Not to mention where does it say that Congress doesn't have to pay taxes but we do?

Also to add that the Federal Income tax was suppose to go away after the Civil War I mean....... But here it is...Still here....Thus the American people have been lied too many by these beauracrats...LOL...


Grace and Peace,
seal

 

[he beholds]

Ultimately, the father bears the responsibility for his childrens' education.

Yep, oh so true. I got a back-handed compliment from my 7-year-old this past weekend, told to me by a third party. This friend of the family was talking with Izaak about life in our crazy home and he said "oh, my mom does all the work at home, my Dad just reads the Bible." Fine by me. When my daughter draws pictures of me, it is usually with the family Bible on my lap. That is my highest calling, and an invaluable part of the children's education.

(I do help with math, too, and I'm the plumber/carpenter/electrician but Elizabeth is your typical homeschooling supermom. Feeding and educating ten children is a task which I think would put just about any CEO in his place.)

OT, but our three year old thinks that Mommy loves to do dishes (which I HATE) and Daddy loves to mow the lawn (which he almost HATES). Daddy also likes to play basketball, frolf, and just "ball," while Mommy also likes to clean in "her" laundry room! Very interesting! He makes me sound like, first, a very good wife, and second, one to be pitied while her husband is playing sports all day! Meanwhile, my husband is more than generous with helping out, and I don't do any more cleaning than I need to! I think he'd have us tied with reading the Bible, but mainly because most of my reading is with the children, whereas Daddy's is usually when they're asleep.

 

[DanMcCormack]

If I sell a beat (I haven't yet) where in the constitution do I have to report that money to the Federal Bully...I mean Gov't... reporting the income earned.... I believe that is quite ridiculous and highly unlawful both Constituationally and especially Biblically....

Sadly, the 16th Amendment to the Constitution is the Constitution.

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

Perhaps you are a bit confused here. Where does it say I have to report all the income I make. I.E. If I cut my neighbors yard and they pay me for it. Where does it say I have to report that? Therefore if I homeschool my child and a neighbors child, where does it say I have to report that? Perhaps some have read it in there....lol...

Not to mention where does it say that Congress doesn't have to pay taxes but we do?

Also to add that the Federal Income tax was suppose to go away after the Civil War I mean....... But here it is...Still here....Thus the American people have been lied too many by these beauracrats...LOL...


Grace and Peace,
seal

The 16th Amendment was passed in 1909, 44 years after the Civil War.

Congress -- Representatives and Senators -- are liable for income tax.

Reporting income has been found by the courts to be within the constitutional intent of the 16th Amendment -- many, many times.

I'm not making this up, and I wish it were different, but it is what it is, and we can't pretend we don't have to report or pay because we think the law might be unconstitutional.

Our system's final arbiter of what is consititutional and what isn't has ruled -- repeatedly -- that the income tax is "constitutional."

 

[he beholds]

Maybe the distinction has to be made that the Congress has been granted the power to tax income, but Congress has not demanded that every type and amount of income be taxed or accounted for. They lawfully can, but they have not yet.

 

[DanMcCormack]

Maybe the distinction has to be made that the Congress has been granted the power to tax income, but Congress has not demanded that every type and amount of income be taxed or accounted for. They lawfully can, but they have not yet.

True, but there is no such constraint.

Which is why an audit can reveal "compensation" when no money changed hands.