Thoughts on Wayne Grudem
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Notthemama1984
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Just wrong. He is a baptist who believes in the continuation of the gifts.
MLCOPE2
Puritan Board Junior
He also holds to a historic premil eschatology.
E Nomine
Puritan Board Freshman
Several years ago, the pastor at my former (non-denominational "baptist") church taught through this entire book and I was richly blessed by the experience. I've since grown in discernment--especially regarding eschatology--but I still refer to Grudem's book and find it very clear, comprehensive and well-organized.
Jack K
Puritan Board Doctor
He disagrees with historic Reformed teaching on the points mentioned. If you can get beyond those, the rest of the volume can be enormously helpful. It is well-written and easy to follow. And again and again, there's a Bible-based thoroughness in listing the several things Scripture has to say on a given topic, and in anticipating the questions contemporary believers will have.
I read him side by side with Berkhof, and feel I pretty much have the bases covered.
I read him side by side with Berkhof, and feel I pretty much have the bases covered.
The main lack is that he leaves out the subject of the sabbath. I would have liked to see something detailing Calvin's position, the various confessions, positions today in Reformed denominations, etc. Seems like a big subject to leave out, but maybe in another edition....
His position on gifts appears no substantially different than Vern Poythress, a prof at WTS who is in the OPC:
( http://www.frame-poythress.org/Poythress_books/NPoythressSpiritualGiftsFinal.pdf)
ie, there is no new canonical authoritative revelation, but there can be "words of knowledge" and fallible "prophecy" so forth.
His position on gifts appears no substantially different than Vern Poythress, a prof at WTS who is in the OPC:
( http://www.frame-poythress.org/Poythress_books/NPoythressSpiritualGiftsFinal.pdf)
ie, there is no new canonical authoritative revelation, but there can be "words of knowledge" and fallible "prophecy" so forth.
SolaScriptura
Puritanboard Brimstone
In terms of readability, Grudem is my favorite. He is a good writer and I find it enjoyable to read his material. I also appreciate the layout and flow of his text. While I disagree with his position on church government, baptism, signs gifts, and the millennium, I appreciate that he at least interacts charitably with those whom he disagrees.
One thing: He is careful to point out that he rejects the immutability of God. (Or at least one way of understanding the immutability of God.)
One thing: He is careful to point out that he rejects the immutability of God. (Or at least one way of understanding the immutability of God.)
Iconoclast
Puritan Board Junior
I would not recommend it to anyone.These "errors' are not slight but major,and dangerous.
jayce475
Puritan Board Freshman
What's wrong with being premil?
Anyway, why Grudem when there are other systematics out there with sounder doctrines? I wouldn't recommend it to anyone at all lest they turn into a neo-Calvinist with their charismatic position on sign gifts and disdain towards specific forms of reverent worship.
Martyn Lloyd-Jones "Basic Doctrines of the Bible" is better - more covenantal, not premill, a more consistent Reformed theological framework. Also he is very pastoral and easy to read.
I'm just curious, is their a reason why the admin. have not commented about your signature (or the lack thereof?).
---------- Post added at 09:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 PM ----------
I totally agree... adult only baptism and promotional of pure congregationalism is a major and dangerous error.
Come on bro. you walked right into that one.
---------- Post added at 09:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 PM ----------
I totally agree... adult only baptism and promotional of pure congregationalism is a major and dangerous error.
Come on bro. you walked right into that one.
Notthemama1984
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Who are you asking about? Everyone here has a signature.
Notthemama1984
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Post 13 has his signature. I have no clue why not in his first two posts.
Backwoods Presbyterian
Puritanboard Amanuensis
Charles Hodge and R.L.Dabney's are easy to read. Hodge, I have discovered, surprisingly has some good wit. I am currently in Vol. II and have found it to be good reading.
Jesus is my friend
Puritan Board Junior
Well said!,Grudem's is just fantastic,the issues with some of the gifts I agree with,as was pointed out he is Baptist and historic premill. which is fine with me,just very easy to read and use,I ask,is that a bad thing?
And it's great that we can listen to all the mp3 lectures that this book was produced from.
Monergism :: Scottsdale Bible Church - Systematic Theology Class
FenderPriest
Puritan Board Junior
I think it's helpful to remember that Grudem's Systematic is a beginner's guide and introduction to the entire field of systematic theology. And on that note, he's done an excellent job of edifying thousands upon thousands of Christ's people to know their Bible's better. I think it would be a great loss for people to refuse recommending it simply because they disagree with secondary issues contained therein. His exposition of each doctrine is helpful, clear, and practical with the devotional at the end of each chapter. I also appreciate that he intentionally wrote it to: 1) Have Scripture quoted instead of cited (Grudem takes the point of Scripture's authority and use by the Spirit very seriously in this easily overlooked editorial note - a point many Reformed people need to take notice of.) 2) Each chapter is self-contained, not requiring the previous chapters for comprehension making it easily dropped in to.
I appreciate Grudem's Systematic on many fronts. Are their better systematics? It depends on what "better" you're looking for. As some have noted, to the regular layman, Grudem's going to be the most accessible systematic out there (that I've read). The fact is, many systematics (Reformed or not) are hard to read and in many cases unwilling to meet the regular churchman where he is. Grudem writes so that truck drivers can understand the Bible better, and I appreciate that about him. Are their more thorough systematics out there? Sure (Bavinck and Calvin for starters), but again, his work is an introduction to the whole field, with an excellent bibliography for further reading (as noted) that I think serves as a great gateway systematic to walk along side people in knowing God. On the whole, much like Knowing God, I think Grudem's Systematic will go down as one of the most positively influential, popular books of our generation for the glory of Christ.
I appreciate Grudem's Systematic on many fronts. Are their better systematics? It depends on what "better" you're looking for. As some have noted, to the regular layman, Grudem's going to be the most accessible systematic out there (that I've read). The fact is, many systematics (Reformed or not) are hard to read and in many cases unwilling to meet the regular churchman where he is. Grudem writes so that truck drivers can understand the Bible better, and I appreciate that about him. Are their more thorough systematics out there? Sure (Bavinck and Calvin for starters), but again, his work is an introduction to the whole field, with an excellent bibliography for further reading (as noted) that I think serves as a great gateway systematic to walk along side people in knowing God. On the whole, much like Knowing God, I think Grudem's Systematic will go down as one of the most positively influential, popular books of our generation for the glory of Christ.
jayce475
Puritan Board Freshman
It is precisely because it is an entry-level systematic that we ought not to recommend it as it will contribute to the formation of a younger believer's theology and a lot of work will need to be done to explain to such a one that many doctrines within the book are in error, serious or otherwise. If a brother's mature enough to pick out the bones from Barth, then sure, he will have not issues with picking them out from Grudem. Then again, it may not help him very much if he is already relatively mature. Yes, the book has helped bring many charismatics or new believers to a better understanding of proper soteriology, but that does not mean that we ought to actively recommend it.
Bern
Puritan Board Freshman
I think its very good on the DOG, the attributes of God etc. The main reason is that it is not too complicated. There is a tendency within the reformed camp to be far too "intellectual", while many of us here have no problem with that, there are lots of people who are put off the Reformed position because they see this behaviour as proud, or elitist. I think its good that a more simple systematic theology book has been produced. Having said all that, I would recommend it only if I was able to point out the parts I disagree with, such as his eschatalogical position and his standing on gifts.
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Gage Browning
Puritan Board Freshman
Horton's Covenantal books, not so readable, but his Systematic Work is fairly readable. I wouldn't say as readable as Grudem, but close.
The Author of my Faith
Puritan Board Freshman
AMEN! AND AMEN!
I am amazed at the attitude that shuts out anyone who does not agree 1000% with their views on issues that are not heretical. I do not agree with child baptism but embrace reformed and presbyterian teaching and soak it in like a sponge. I am not against it but do not neccesarrily agree. So I should throw out all Systematic Theology books and writings by anyone who holds to a point I don't agree? What a silly thing to do.
Rich Koster
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
I generally like it. I have a copy. I have used it in Sunday School. I like the way he presents different viewpoints and explains why he chose his. I'm glad he wrote it so someone who does not have degrees after their name can handle it. I have some disagreement with some points in the Spiritual Gifts area.
Kim G
Puritan Board Junior
I have read portions of it and found it easy to read. My only beef was that I am a default credobaptist but I still found his explanation of paedobaptism to be a bit of a caricature.
Also, we all read books we disagree with in some way. So read Grudem, enjoy the good stuff, and let God's Spirit help you discern areas in which he is lacking.
Also, we all read books we disagree with in some way. So read Grudem, enjoy the good stuff, and let God's Spirit help you discern areas in which he is lacking.
discipulo
Puritan Board Junior
I don't know Grudem, I don't even plan to get it, Bavinck, Berkhof, Reymond, Van Genderen, Kersten, Muller PRRD (covering some areas like Prolegomena)
and have 2 volumes of Frame 4 vols set (not exactly a ST though), these are more than enough for me,
yet I plan to buy Horton's while Douglas Kelly will be a must when complete.
But I have a word or two about Grudem from a source I truly trust.
A good brother and dear friend of mine, Dr. Alan Pallister is Professor of Systematic Theology in the Baptist Theological Seminar in Portugal,
Seminrio Teolgico Baptista
God has used him in my life in so many ways, not the least by his devotion to Calvinism or to the Puritan writers.
I don't agree with his view on Baptism and some other areas (he is also a Baptist Pastor)
but for more than 15 years he used Louis Berkhof as his Manual for the Class in a Baptist Seminary, and this says a lot!
Some years ago he started using Wayne Grudem instead and he highly recommends it. We had a talk about it.
Dr. Pallister is not a strict cessationist but he is amillenialist (how he dealt with Berkhof earlier on the fomer and now with Grudem on the later
I really don't know).
But he is a man of God who excells in doctrinal integrity and dedication to the Church, both as a Pastor and Professor, he wouldn't use or recommend
Grudem if it wasn't truly very Biblical !!!
and have 2 volumes of Frame 4 vols set (not exactly a ST though), these are more than enough for me,
yet I plan to buy Horton's while Douglas Kelly will be a must when complete.
But I have a word or two about Grudem from a source I truly trust.
A good brother and dear friend of mine, Dr. Alan Pallister is Professor of Systematic Theology in the Baptist Theological Seminar in Portugal,
Seminrio Teolgico Baptista
God has used him in my life in so many ways, not the least by his devotion to Calvinism or to the Puritan writers.
I don't agree with his view on Baptism and some other areas (he is also a Baptist Pastor)
but for more than 15 years he used Louis Berkhof as his Manual for the Class in a Baptist Seminary, and this says a lot!
Some years ago he started using Wayne Grudem instead and he highly recommends it. We had a talk about it.
Dr. Pallister is not a strict cessationist but he is amillenialist (how he dealt with Berkhof earlier on the fomer and now with Grudem on the later
I really don't know).
But he is a man of God who excells in doctrinal integrity and dedication to the Church, both as a Pastor and Professor, he wouldn't use or recommend
Grudem if it wasn't truly very Biblical !!!
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