Nations with Most Biblical Laws

[JML]

With U.S. citizens now being forced to fund abortions - see Washington state- even though it is debatable whether this was done indirectly in the past with all citizens and gay marriage laws looking like they will be forced upon all states soon, which nations would you say have the most Biblical laws? I know this is difficult to determine, just curious.

 

[Mushroom]

The Philippines is holding out to some degree.

 

[iainduguid]

Fair warning: you are opening a sizable can of worms here since the question presupposes general agreement as to which Biblical laws should be applied to modern nations states (theonomy vs 2 kingdoms anyone?) and how those laws that we all agree should be applied to modern nation states (e.g. you shall not steal; what does this mean in terms of taxation policies? Remuneration for CEO's? In my experience British Christians would generally have a different take on these issues from many Americans).

It also assumes a correlation between having the most Biblical laws and keeping the most Biblical laws, which the experience of OT Israel suggests is not necessarily the case. For example, there is virtually no evidence that they ever observed the jubilee laws, even though they most certainly were meant to do so.

Not saying that some countries might not have better laws than others; as a guest in your country who has lived in several others, I am appreciative of much that is good about the laws here. Just that it is a harder question to answer than the OP seems to suggest.

 

[Edward]

It strikes me that some of the Muslim countries should rank pretty high with those who want to re-institute the old testament penal law. There aren't many places in the world that would sentence an urban rape victim to death these days.

 

[Miss Marple]

Edward, I find it shocking if you are suggesting that God's Word would prescribe death to a rape victim.

I guess you are talking about a woman not crying out/resisting in an area where she could be heard?

There is a protection there, for men accused of rape when the woman was actually quite willing. Even in our day this is sadly common. Look at the Duke team famously accused of gang rape. Those young men were ruined, although ultimately proven innocent. The woman who charged them was never punished.

A law that uses attempts for help or defense as evidence that sex was non-consensual is not the same as a law that condemns women to death for being raped.

 

[PhilA]

The Zambian constitution opens with “WE, THE PEOPLE OF ZAMBIA, IN EXERCISE OF OUR CONSTITUENT POWER: ACKNOWLEDGE the supremacy of God Almighty; DECLARE the Republic a Christian Nation, but uphold the right of every person to enjoy that person’s freedom of conscience or religion”. Their constitution also defines life as beginning at conception.

Not bad for a former colony

 

[Edward]

Edward, I find it shocking if you are suggesting that God's Word would prescribe death to a rape victim.

Deuteronomy 22:23-24. How exactly would that work in a modern, urbanized country?

 

[AlexanderHenderson1647]

Edward, I find it shocking if you are suggesting that God's Word would prescribe death to a rape victim.

Deuteronomy 22:23-24. How exactly would that work in a modern, urbanized country?

Likewise I'm shocked. If nothing else, the way you object to the question is unhelpful. Those are the exact passages liberals bring up to cast aspersion on the Scripture in general. The passage deals with a betrothed couple. The "contracted" couple were considered a virtually married couple in the ancient Israelite state and so they dealt with the two having sex as if they were committing adultery, a capital offense.

The concept of statute of limitation can be derived from here the MALE has protection in God's eyes (a couple caught in fornication were not punished the same as a couple caught in adultery.) Ok, modern states: Let's say a married woman deceives a man telling him she's single - they have sex. The woman comes up pregnant and the husband calls her out (say, he was out of the country on business/military during the time in which the conception occurred or a paternity test reveals another father.) If in the fear of the moment the woman attempts to lie and say "He raped me" to avoid being punished as an adulterer, then the question goes, "So why didn't you tell anyone?" Good question for the man's sake.

Perhaps in the modern state it is augmented re: for ladies: if a man threatens to rape you, scream for help and protection/help as soon as you are able (do all that you reasonably can to prevent the rapist.) If he threatens to kill you should you scream, you go to get help as soon as you are sure you are no longer in imminent danger. However, you don't get an unlimited criminal report time to seek justice against the accused. How to deal with the Israelite concept of engaged equals psuedo-married? I'm not for sure - perhaps we ought to treat it as they did.

Is there necessarily a one-for-one on the equity. Not necessarily, but I'm sure you'd appreciate it were you a young man about to be executed for rape when you thought you were only committing fornication, wrong as that is. Are you suggesting that there is NO general equity to be derived from such judicial laws or at least this one? a la:
WCF 19:4. "To them also, as a body politic, he gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the State of that people, not obliging any other, now further than the general equity thereof may require."

Whatever the case, this is sidetracking the OP.

Mr. Lanier, Tuvalu has some very solid laws on the books - check out their nation. I've been very impressed with much of what they've done. The nation is about 95% professing congregational Reformed Christian as well. They are the historical fruit of the London Missionary Society's efforts.

 

[Edward]

Likewise I'm shocked. If nothing else, the way you object to the question is unhelpful.

I didn't object to Ms. Rothenbuhler's question.

And I certainly didn't object to the original post. If you are going to include the ceremonial law and the judicial law, it is my proposition that countries which have Sharia law are closer to the standards of the Old Testament than any Christian or Post Christian country. If someone wants to re-define the question, I may re-define the answer.

And, regardless of all of that (with which I agree), ultimately we should say with the Apostle, "Let God be true and every man a liar." If God has ever prescribed something, even if we are not required to implement it in today's political economy (although, general equity would still stand), we may never imply that said prescription is cruel, or harsh, or somehow wrong. Whatever God commands, by mere virtue of Him "thinking"/commanding, such is inherently good, righteous, holy, just.

I haven't suggested otherwise.

 

[Edward]

Excellent! So, I guess your assumption is that the virgin mentioed in Deut. 22:23-4 is a 'rape victim'? The implication, I think, in the text, is that if she didn't cry out, the lying with her was by consent. Perhaps I am misunderstanding the passage.

While 2 people have found that comment helpful, I don't see how it responds to the question of this thread. Brad, Phil A, and I appear to be the only 3 that have offered responses.

 

[Tim]

Let's try this:

Concerning each of the 10 Commandments:

1. Does the nation declare itself to be Christian or otherwise?
2. Are there laws against idolatry?
3. Are there laws against blasphemy?
4. Are shopping and other non-necessary services allowed to open on the 1st day of the week?
5. [Probably something to do with parental rights...feel free to contribute]
6. Is murder justly punished? Is the right to physically defend oneself recognized? Is there capital punishment? Is abortion illegal?
7. Are there just laws regarding adultery, divorce, and rape? Are prostitution and p0rnography illegal? Is there an appropriate standard of modesty in the media? Is biblical marriage upheld exclusively?
8. Are there just tax laws? Is the right to private property upheld? Is there a principle of restitution regarding the punishment of theft? Is the currency appropriately backed by a standard?
9. Are there just laws regarding slander, perjury, truthfulness in advertising and reporting news, etc?
10. [Coveting would not be a civil crime]

Abortion law
Blasphemy law
Sabbath law
Capital Punishment
Gun laws

 

[AlexanderHenderson1647]

Likewise I'm shocked. If nothing else, the way you object to the question is unhelpful.

...I certainly didn't object to the original post. If you are going to include the ceremonial law and the judicial law, it is my proposition that countries which have Sharia law are closer to the standards of the Old Testament than any Christian or Post Christian country. If someone wants to re-define the question, I may re-define the answer

Would you show me where I suggest use of the ceremonial law? Sharia law is a horrid, defiling, God-dishonoring blasphemy. Where it coincides with Biblical judicial general equity as was implemented by every Reformed Christian community up until the 19th and 20th centuries, it does so only incidentally and with a foundation of Godlessness, not Godliness. Unjust taxation, slavery, murder of Christian people is common, child rape is countenanced, spousal abuse, polygamy, castration of females, defamation of women in general is the norm, mutilation for petty theft, etc. Don't even suggest that they are "close." Who would honestly say they want to live in a nation like those idolaters run? Surely you know that the OP wasn't driving at that.

 

[Unoriginalname]

Let's try this:

Concerning each of the 10 Commandments:

1. Does the nation declare itself to be Christian or otherwise?
2. Are there laws against idolatry?
3. Are there laws against blasphemy?
4. Are shopping and other non-necessary services allowed to open on the 1st day of the week?
5. [Probably something to do with parental rights...feel free to contribute]
6. Is murder justly punished? Is the right to physically defend oneself recognized? Is there capital punishment? Is abortion illegal?
7. Are there just laws regarding adultery, divorce, and rape? Are prostitution and p0rnography illegal? Is there an appropriate standard of modesty in the media? Is biblical marriage upheld exclusively?
8. Are there just tax laws? Is the right to private property upheld? Is there a principle of restitution regarding the punishment of theft? Is the currency appropriately backed by a standard?
9. Are there just laws regarding slander, perjury, truthfulness in advertising and reporting news, etc?
10. [Coveting would not be a civil crime]

Well that is very good criteria.

 

[Edward]

I'm sorry for not being more clear. I was responding to you, not the OP, and genuinely wanted to know your thoughts. I am not trying to imply anything of you.

My purpose was not to derail the thread. To the extent that I've done so (and it's pretty clear that I have) I apologize to the original poster. But I'm not going to participate in taking the thread further down a rabbit trail.

 

[Edward]

Would you show me where I suggest use of the ceremonial law?

The question said "Biblical Law". The scriptures contain all 3 -ceremonial, judicial, and moral. If the intention is to exclude ceremonial, I appreciate the clarification. Do you include the judicial fully? For the general equity shown therein?, or not at all?

 

[AlexanderHenderson1647]

Would you show me where I suggest use of the ceremonial law?

The question said "Biblical Law". The scriptures contain all 3 -ceremonial, judicial, and moral. If the intention is to exclude ceremonial, I appreciate the clarification.

*groan* I think we all have a good notion of where Mr. Lanier is coming from being on a Reformed board. He had no desire to find out if any nation was reinstituting ceremonial law. Please, there's not reason for that.

Do you include the judicial fully? For the general equity shown therein?, or not at all?

I subscribe to and concur with the original WCF re: the Law of God 19:4. "To them also, as a body politic, he gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the State of that people, not obliging any other, now further than the general equity thereof may require." But again, this is derailing the OP. If you're going to continue this, in respect to the OP, please start another thread (but there are more than a few that have already been done on this very subject.)

 

[JML]

*groan* I think we all have a good notion of where Mr. Lanier is coming from being on a Reformed board. He had no desire to find out if any nation was reinstituting ceremonial law.

Mr. Henderson is correct. Thanks.

 

[JML]

Let's try this:

Concerning each of the 10 Commandments:

1. Does the nation declare itself to be Christian or otherwise?
2. Are there laws against idolatry?
3. Are there laws against blasphemy?
4. Are shopping and other non-necessary services allowed to open on the 1st day of the week?
5. [Probably something to do with parental rights...feel free to contribute]
6. Is murder justly punished? Is the right to physically defend oneself recognized? Is there capital punishment? Is abortion illegal?
7. Are there just laws regarding adultery, divorce, and rape? Are prostitution and p0rnography illegal? Is there an appropriate standard of modesty in the media? Is biblical marriage upheld exclusively?
8. Are there just tax laws? Is the right to private property upheld? Is there a principle of restitution regarding the punishment of theft? Is the currency appropriately backed by a standard?
9. Are there just laws regarding slander, perjury, truthfulness in advertising and reporting news, etc?
10. [Coveting would not be a civil crime]

Thank you Tim. This is what I had in mind and you said it very well.

Although, I realize that many do not believe 1-4 should be enforced. As a good member of the RPCNA, Tim has included them.