2nd Comm. question

[Ploutos]

On at least two occasions in recent weeks, my pastor has brought up the topic of the 2nd commandment and laid out his view of it. He explicitly stated that images of Jesus are not a violation of this commandment, and that it prohibits worship of carved images. He doesn't believe images of Jesus are helpful or prudent, but he doesn't believe they are forbidden by that commandment. He did not provide any explanation for his view or acknowledgement of its divergence from confessional/Reformed thought; he merely stated it, tossed a few digs at people who think otherwise, and moved on.

I (and the Reformed tradition, if I understand it correctly) have two problems with this: 1) I do believe the 2nd commandment forbids images of Jesus (and I think the 3rd and 9th commandments do as well, though that's for another thread). 2) I think it's a disastrous (and non-Reformed) interpretive approach to the ten commandments - akin to saying the 7th commandment prohibits adultery but not fornication, or that it's okay to lie about someone as long as they live at least 2 doors away.

What I could use advice on, very specifically, is how to process this with my family inside the walls of our home. My confessional convictions are not shared by my wife, whose view has traditionally been more lax than the one laid out by our pastor. I do take pastoral authority and church membership seriously, and it seems very easy to "trash talk" one's pastor without reproach in this day and age where backbiting is not merely an acceptable sin but a commended virtue. How do I respect my pastor before my family in a situation where he seems to be teaching something that is unscriptural and in opposition to the Reformed confessions? And how do I walk through this topic with wisdom when it was already a point of difficulty prior to this?

 

[Contra_Mundum]

Maybe the first thing to realize is this: You are, most probably, going to be "all right," and so is your family; so is even your congregation. At least in the short-term, which typically is how long the "crisis" lasts. Yes, there are moments when the snowball seems to grow exponentially and the dam breaks. But panicking before that time usually leaves you with regret for lack of patience. So, I just want to put this in a post quickly to try encouraging you to take a moment, think on the grace that is yours in Christ, and expect something good to come--eventually--from this business. Meanwhile, patience is the order of the day.

I'll comment further in another post regarding some of your questions/concerns.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

tossed a few digs at people who think otherwise

What do you mean by "tossed a few digs". Actual disparagement of the Reformed confessional view? Does he know you hold to the Reformed confessional view that images of Christ are idolatry?

 

[Ploutos]

Maybe the first thing to realize is this: You are, most probably, going to be "all right," and so is your family; so is even your congregation. At least in the short-term, which typically is how long the "crisis" lasts. Yes, there are moments when the snowball seems to grow exponentially and the dam breaks. But panicking before that time usually leaves you with regret for lack of patience. So, I just want to put this in a post quickly to try encouraging you to take a moment, think on the grace that is yours in Christ, and expect something good to come--eventually--from this business. Meanwhile, patience is the order of the day.

I'll comment further in another post regarding some of your questions/concerns.

I appreciate and accept this. Some weeks have elapsed since these two occasions, and after briefly voice my disagreement to my wife, I have let the matter rest. It is in the interests of patient deliberation that I have allowed a fair amount of time to pass before posting here, and I am expecting that a fair bit more time will pass in pondering, praying, and seeking counsel before I broach the topic in our home.

What do you mean by "tossed a few digs". Actual disparagement of the Reformed confessional view? Does he know you hold to the Reformed confessional view that images of Christ are idolatry?

He does not know; it's a large church and with little opportunity for direct interaction with him. And frankly, it does not matter whether he knows. I just need to know how to model respect and care for my pastor, and concern for biblical integrity, within the walls of my home.

 

[Contra_Mundum]

From your perspective (and mine) your pastor has a "blind spot" when it comes to visuals of (so-called) Jesus, as he was (2K yrs ago) in his unglorified, incarnational estate; or possibly efforts to portray him as he is now in resurrection glory. Your pastor may also be careless (at times) with his criticism of people who don't agree with him: that he has no blind spot in this matter; he may be unkind in how he describes them, which is something he could have to answer for with Christ himself should that moment arise when he might have to be corrected on the Day of Judgment.

But, who among us will not have to face our own reckonings over various failures? Christ's ministers know the score (greater judgment) when they take their vows, even if they have barely counted the cost when they do so; they are not ignorant. Ultimately, we will all plead nothing but the blood of Jesus and his mercy for our individual debt in toto. Also, it could be the case that your pastor's "digs" are an almost unconscious reflex prompted by a reactionary response to some shabby treatment of him by them of another mind (whether on this or some other topic); that's not a proper excuse for bitter words, but it might explain why they came so easily to him when you raised this issue.

I have no idea who your pastor is, or what his character flaws are (and we all have them, myself most of all). But giving him the benefit of the doubt... you should try to remember, even in your own disturbance, that he has great weight on his shoulders. His opinion about images of Jesus may seem to him to be so far down the ladder of concern, it barely makes the top fifty. For my part, I wish most ministers simply kept the Confessional standard on every topic to which it speaks, thereby reducing the sheer number of matters on which their pastoral energy is divided. After all, that is the idea behind a church's Confession--here are the subjects we are oath bound to agree upon. If one cannot abide what the church agrees, one should in all honesty seek a different church body where the breadth of doctrine and practice is not so precise, or on which that point of prior dissent has become agreement.

But I am not saying your pastor ought certainly be departing his place of service. I believe he ought refrain from teaching contrary to his church's Confession, but to be held to account on that matter the church's elders must speak up. If the elders do not insist on Confessional fidelity in the church's teaching (where they have rule and sway to monitor and control it), if the teaching gets sufficiently out of line, then people who know their Confession will depart. This item of your concern is, in my opinion, not small of itself; yet it may be one chink in the armor of an otherwise very good and profitable man. I would hope so.

If the elders overall appreciate this man's ministry, they might be patient with him in this area. Whatever exactly they should be doing, they are on the scene to make that call, and will have that call reviewed by the angel witnesses and Christ. I think, having approached your pastor on this question in person, maybe a next course of appropriate action is to bring the question up to an elder or write a letter to the session as a whole expressing your concerns and citing the church's Confession. This is an orderly approach, and it continues to follow what some might identify as a "Mt.18" procedure to seeking a resolution.

I may have some further thoughts I add below.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

He does not know; it's a large church and with little opportunity for direct interaction with him. And frankly, it does not matter whether he knows. I just need to know how to model respect and care for my pastor, and concern for biblical integrity, within the walls of my home.

I understand large churches make this less easy, but he should know (see Bruce's comments above). Knowing where you stand and how his remarks came off, may cause him to be more circumspect in how he teaches his exception in the future.

 

[Contra_Mundum]

What I could use advice on, very specifically, is how to process this with my family inside the walls of our home. My confessional convictions are not shared by my wife, whose view has traditionally been more lax than the one laid out by our pastor. I do take pastoral authority and church membership seriously, and it seems very easy to "trash talk" one's pastor without reproach in this day and age where backbiting is not merely an acceptable sin but a commended virtue. How do I respect my pastor before my family in a situation where he seems to be teaching something that is unscriptural and in opposition to the Reformed confessions? And how do I walk through this topic with wisdom when it was already a point of difficulty prior to this?

You have very little "authority" within the community of the saints, other than that which is analogous to your "authority" within your civil community (I don't know what you do for a living, if you are a policeman or an elected official, etc.) as an ordinary citizen. You are most often a follower of authorities, which makes for harmonious living, even as you may have duties to raise alarm or try to prevent something ill, while respecting the limits placed on you.

In your home by contrast you have great authority and responsibility besides. You lead your family spiritually, wife and children. You have the power to limit what is permissible under your roof, power that is not unlimited but still real (much like a policeman has bounds to his lawful exercise). Even if your partner in family dominance (your wife) is not always of your conviction, I expect the two of you in love can find some reasonable harmony on how the peace of your household will be maintained.

Is this matter something on which the two of you are actively contesting wills at home? I can imagine a spouse with a background in another church and social culture, perhaps closer to Roman Catholicism or Pentecostalism, might think of religious icons and statues in the house as "decoration," even if the reverence and praying by them has faded from consciousness. There could be other potential flash-points, such as, "What will my parents say if that [wedding gift] statue is removed from our living room?" I'm just making things up now, but I can imagine a scenario where a married couple ends up in tension, not always over the religious issue, but when one party's religious conviction is at odds with the other party's loyalties (not necessarily religious in nature).

In a case like the one I've alluded to above, there may be more than one right response. Wisdom is called for. You might win the matter with a quick and decisive power-play, in the process creating a wound that takes longer than proper to heal; when, if a step-by-step method took longer, the difficult time of the process was shorter in duration, or the good end came having achieved a higher mark. We never know in advance how our prayer-directed efforts will culminate, if we will think they ended well or poorly in the result itself; but we can take comfort in the prayer and in resting on God's word and in our pursuit of a wise course no matter the outcome, if those were the means we chose.

I think you should avoid at all ventures "trash-talking" your pastor and his views. Such words are a violation of the 5th commandment at least. It teaches your wife and children to "speak evil of dignities," (see 2Pet.2:10), when you should teach them to respect lawful authority as divine ministry. It is not wrong to clearly and accurately attack and even ridicule false doctrine, being careful to distinguish between the error and the person who holds on to it. The latter is an object of our love, even when these people become actual enemies to us (because of their rebellion to Christ). We rarely see people bitterly opposing one another for their commitments, while being determined to view their opposite as someone who bears the image of God.

Even if you are attacked for a righteous stance, the grace you display in handling hostility and abuse will be more telling in the long run, than the "sweetness" of a sharply delivered comeback, a riposte that rips and "leaves a mark." A soft answer turns away wrath. Stick to your guns and patiently teach the truth; 2Tim.4:2 is especially directed to the church's ministry, but its applicability within a home and family is just as apt for the one who has a duty for spiritual leadership in that setting. Only the Spirit and the instrumentality of the word brings heart change, and only heart change brings about conduct that is anything but hypocritical.

 

[Ploutos]

@Contra_Mundum, I appreciate the way you combined unflinching critical assessment of poor teaching with an encouragement to consider my own sinfulness and to remember care and empathy for my pastor.

And you are right; I have little influence at church but a great deal at home, which is why my primary concern is how to address it there. It's not appropriate for me to challenge my pastor when I am still learning how to be a godly leader in my own house. I'd like to have some solid evidence of my growth in that department before I start writing to my pastor about his doctrinal shortcomings.

It has never occurred to my wife that some people would consider images of Jesus a sin - she'd never given it much thought one way or the other. At this point, she is becoming more aware of and sensitive to my convictions, but she does not share them, and the concessions she makes are more out a desire not to upset me than out of any leaning of her own conscience. If that sounds like a testament to my past clumsiness as a husband, it is. I have a burning desire to be able to teach our children what I believe Scripture teaches on this topic, and to align our household practices and habits with the Reformed/confessional teaching on this topic. I am holding back at this time because I don't believe that it would help to pull the authority card when I would prefer to win my wife's heart on the matter.

So - to the topic at hand. What might it look like to critique the teaching but respect the man in discussions with my wife and children? Can you give me some practical pointers on how to proceed here?

 

[Alan D. Strange]

@Contra_Mundum, I appreciate the way you combined unflinching critical assessment of poor teaching with an encouragement to consider my own sinfulness and to remember care and empathy for my pastor.

This is why, frankly, Bruce Buchanan is such a valuable contributor to this Board. I realize that this is arguably off-topic, but I want to commend the way that Bruce routinely interacts with others to all who likewise interact, and especially to preachers in handling texts and pastors in engaging parishioners.

This is how we should preach and counsel: being critical of the teaching of others where we must, but only as we consider our own sins, remembering care and empathy for the ones that we are criticizing. This is vital in our interactions but sadly these days it seems to be more honored in the breach than in the observance [with apologies to Shakespeare for adopting the modern meaning].

Peace,
Alan

 

[Contra_Mundum]

I don't know anything at all about your spiritual development, where you've been, how much of your journey has been you+spouse walking together. Somehow, you have found a church home in the PCA (per your signature). I hope and pray that as a family you will appreciate and really enjoy the time God has planned for you to live and grow in the faith under the shepherding of his pastors where you are currently settled. I believe, though I cannot say with perfect certainty, that you can most likely take home with profit the great majority of what you learn and absorb when at church, without any "filtering" afterward.

Perhaps it is when you are gathered around as a family (maybe after dinner?) and have time to discuss the day's message (or messages or lessons) that you can reinforce the divine ministry that was provided for the family. Talk about the sermon, the worship, the Sunday School, etc. I would think it most beneficial if such a pattern could begin with hardly any negative expression or doubt of the pastor's or another teacher's effort. Focus on the fact that he is (for now, anyway) Christ's gift to you, per Eph.4:11, and you don't look a gift horse (so to speak) in the mouth. Get the family used to thanking God for the spiritual meal he has delivered via his servants. While rehearsing the day's lessons, be open to questions and other input from your wife and children. Encourage it, and so encourage listening for the sake of your later conversation on the topics of the day.

At the same time, you may take time for your own leading of family worship, be it Sunday or the other days of the week. It doesn't have to be fancy, or lengthy (especially given the limit of children's attention span). But by consistent Bible reading, opportunity is made for children (or wife) to ask questions, or make comments that lead to greater understanding, even if it comes in terms of a correction to misunderstanding.

But to lead well, you must be a student first. You should know and practice, for example, a relatively simple explanation for why the 10 commandments are a helpful summary of God's moral will, and why that moral will holds for all mankind ever since creation, it wasn't new with Moses, and it didn't change (essentially) when Christ appeared. Moral formation is less important than gospel knowledge (for anyone, including children), but it is still important. Knowing God's will clearly helps us understand how our natural flesh rebels against what we ought to love, and why we need our great Savior and Mediator Jesus. Love for Jesus is the one sure motive to greater fidelity and obedience before God.

Studying the 10 commandments as a family can help your children understand 1) who God is, 2) what good is, 3) what sin is, 4) who we are in relation to God, 5) why we need a Savior. It can also be useful in interpreting the world, the society around us, the church-society which is our first allegiance as Christians, on the way to helping your family become discerning when encountering the ways and temptations that contradict divine truth. It is also useful to know what the limits of obedience should be, i.e. "in the Lord." Do you want your family to know when to obey authorities (church or state or family!) and when they MUST refuse? They must obey God, rather than men, IF that lawful authority asks them to disobey God.

Some required obedience is distasteful, but not sinful, so it must be obeyed. How will we know the difference? By knowing what God ordains, and what men under God dictate, and what they in rebellion to God may dictate. Obeying "house rules" is obedience to the 5th commandment. But the reason the neighbors kids don't have to go to bed at 9PM, but 10PM, does not mean those kids and that family are doing it wrong. Your family should understand the differences between moral law, and your positive but proper demands; as well as the positive but proper demands of other authorities in other contexts; and the improper demands authorities will invariably make.

I spent several paragraphs on the law, not because it is more critical than the Bible story, or Psalms, or particular messages in the Bible, but because your original issue had to do with the 2nd commandment. You teach your little flock/congregation the truth, and pray God will use your effort to make good, loving, respectful hearers through you, who have discernment to know if another teacher is not being accurate. We want to be both knowledgeable, and respectful, while continuing to be humble with our self-regard. What we are bold to maintain comes not from self-assurance, but from an original humility before God, in every way we can think to be humble.

Take time to teach the ones you love, those who have been placed in your care by God for this reason (among others). Teach them above all about Jesus, the central figure of the Bible. Along the way, do not neglect to teach them to love what Jesus loves, namely God with all their heart, and their neighbor as themselves. He is worthy of honor, first by way of faith, then also by way of obedience and imitation.

 

[Ploutos]

Thank you for these kind and gracious words. I will pray that they bear fruit in my life and home.