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Originally posted by joshua
Originally posted by Jeff_Bartel
If it is easily doable for one to do so, I can think of no better reason to move.
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But even if it's "difficult", don't you think it should be done? Rather than not plugging in to a church? Having "Home" worship? No Elders. No accountability. No Lord's Table. No discipline. Etc.
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I'm not saying that if it is just "hard" then it is ok for a family to stay put, but I am just trying to make the statment free from "but what if's?".

Let me try again.

As a general rule, I think it is incumbant upon a family to find a church that worship's the true God, even if that includes moving.
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Originally posted by joshua
Scenario:

A family moves to a town, or has lived there all its life. The father is very savvy in his profession, becomes very grounded and established both financially, socially, etc. The father becomes a Christian, then Reformed, etc. but the town lacks a Church in which he can take his family to in good conscience. His kids are firmly established academically in this town. He's established financially, socially, etc.

Would it not be incumbent upon this man to uproot his family and move them to a place where a local church exists that he can take them to in good conscience?

Or the same thing with a singular person?

I mean, wouldn't this be a point where it's time to be faithful to God above your job, no matter how well-established, or your school, or your sociability, etc?
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Josh - let me change the scenario:

A poor father become a Christian. He becomes Reformed. There are no Reformed churches close enough for his family to attend. He has a car but can hardly afford the high cost of gasoline. He is faced with A) Not joining a local church B) Joining a church that differs with some of his theology. What should he do?

I bring this up because anything is possible for those who have the resources. Such was the case in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina. Those who were poor lacked the resources of those who had money. This does not mean the wealthy or middle-class was racist. Far from it. But the reality of the economic disparity was amplified during a time of national disaster. Relate this to poor believers. What should they do?
 
Originally posted by BaptistInCrisis
Originally posted by joshua
Scenario:

A family moves to a town, or has lived there all its life. The father is very savvy in his profession, becomes very grounded and established both financially, socially, etc. The father becomes a Christian, then Reformed, etc. but the town lacks a Church in which he can take his family to in good conscience. His kids are firmly established academically in this town. He's established financially, socially, etc.

Would it not be incumbent upon this man to uproot his family and move them to a place where a local church exists that he can take them to in good conscience?

Or the same thing with a singular person?

I mean, wouldn't this be a point where it's time to be faithful to God above your job, no matter how well-established, or your school, or your sociability, etc?
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Josh - let me change the scenario:

A poor father become a Christian. He becomes Reformed. There are no Reformed churches close enough for his family to attend. He has a car but can hardly afford the high cost of gasoline. He is faced with A) Not joining a local church B) Joining a church that differs with some of his theology. What should he do?

I bring this up because anything is possible for those who have the resources. Such was the case in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina. Those who were poor lacked the resources of those who had money. This does not mean the wealthy or middle-class was racist. Far from it. But the reality of the economic disparity was amplified during a time of national disaster. Relate this to poor believers. What should they do?
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Now, I'll answer the question for myself. If the only church near me was Presbyterian (and a good paedo Presbyterian at that! :D ), I would attend and join (if the elders would allow me). That is just me.
 
Originally posted by joshua
My whole point is that I think there's really no excuse to not be joined to a local church. If you one says that they just can't find one in their area that they can go to in good conscience, it's time to up and move. I think you'd agree with me on that.
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Joshua, in principle...yes. But not everyone is able to move. I am not tying to throw in class warfare, but some families do not have the resources to move. Until they are able to, they should make the necessary sacrifices in order to fellowship with other believers.
 
Josh - no...I get your drift. That family has the means to move, so they should do so. But don't you see an inequity with families that cannot move? In another post Joseph and I have been having a dialog on his church and paedobaptism. He continues at his church because he has grown to love them. Yet, he has the opportunity to attend a church that does practice paedobaptism. He and I are in polite disagreement. I think he should join that church since he is Reformed and believe in paedobaptism. But what if there was no PCA or similar church nearby and he DID NOT possess the means to move? His church is solidly Calvinistic. Should he not attend there until his situation changes (i.e. either a PCA type church moves into the area or he is able to move out)?

Thoughts?
 
You see about "what ifs?" :lol:

Everyone should just stick with my answer....the right one of course! :P
 
why does he have to move???

PLANT A CHURCH!!

If there is not a sound church get busy finding a denomination or assocoation that will send a church planter. PLANT A CHURCH!

There are so many reforming pastors and not so many reforming churches.....put two and two together and get a sound church started!!!!

(why does no one ever think about this? To me it is so obvious. No sound church - pray and work to plant one.)

Phillip
 
...and thus it is seen on the horizon, as the evening comes to a close, that Joshua's scenerio starts it's long tragic death of innumberable qualifications.

:D
 
Originally posted by joshua
Originally posted by pastorway
why does he have to move???

PLANT A CHURCH!!

If there is not a sound church get busy finding a denomination or assocoation that will send a church planter. PLANT A CHURCH!

There are so many reforming pastors and not so many reforming churches.....put two and two together and get a sound church started!!!!

(why does no one ever think about this? To me it is so obvious. No sound church - pray and work to plant one.)

Phillip
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Phillip, I agree completely...but I forgot to put in my scenario...say it's a small denomination that his conscience is bound to...and they have no one who can do it at the time?

[Edited on 10-5-2005 by joshua]
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well church planting does not happen overnight. PRAY, WORK, PAY, do whatever it takes to plant a church. There is no reason, Biblical or otherwise, for this man not to work to help plant a church.

"no one who can do it" or no one willing to make the sacrifice necessary?

Phillip

[Edited on 10-5-05 by pastorway]
 
....what if the man is claustiphobic and cannot leave his house to go to church?

:banana:
 
Originally posted by houseparent
I think some people get too worked up about how far away church is.
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Right Adam. We have members who travel more than 100 miles, one way, to worship with us.

Vic
 
Originally posted by BaptistInCrisis
Now, I'll answer the question for myself. If the only church near me was Presbyterian (and a good paedo Presbyterian at that! :D ), I would attend and join (if the elders would allow me). That is just me.
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Me Too.:D
 
Originally posted by victorbravo
Originally posted by houseparent
I think some people get too worked up about how far away church is.
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Right Adam. We have members who travel more than 100 miles, one way, to worship with us.

Vic
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Whew!

I was beginning to think I was being harsh. Seriously though, unless a family is very poor, without tranportation, etc. there is no reason that you cannot plan to travel a ways to go to a good church (as maybe you work to plant one).

Thankfully I am now 15 minutes from my church, but for a long while I was at least 45 minutes away.
 
Originally posted by houseparent
Originally posted by victorbravo
Originally posted by houseparent
I think some people get too worked up about how far away church is.
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Right Adam. We have members who travel more than 100 miles, one way, to worship with us.

Vic
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Whew!

I was beginning to think I was being harsh. Seriously though, unless a family is very poor, without tranportation, etc. there is no reason that you cannot plan to travel a ways to go to a good church (as maybe you work to plant one).

Thankfully I am now 15 minutes from my church, but for a long while I was at least 45 minutes away.
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Adam, and my contention is that there are many who are poor. Unfortunately the greatest concentration of poor are in the cities. It is also unfortunate that many biblically based churches (both Presbyterian and Baptist) have left the city. That is a whole other topic. This is one of the reasons that Presbyterians have had the race card thrown at them. I am not saying that is fair. In this day and age, anyone can be called a racist for just disagreeing with a person from a different race. I suppose my whole contention has been some folks are not able to commute to church. Would it not be pleasing to our Lord if we were able to carry correct theology back into the inner cities?

Just a thought.....

[Edited on 10-5-2005 by BaptistInCrisis]
 
Originally posted by pastorway
why does he have to move???

PLANT A CHURCH!!

If there is not a sound church get busy finding a denomination or assocoation that will send a church planter. PLANT A CHURCH!

There are so many reforming pastors and not so many reforming churches.....put two and two together and get a sound church started!!!!

(why does no one ever think about this? To me it is so obvious. No sound church - pray and work to plant one.)

Phillip
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:amen: You are 100% right, Pastor Way!!! I agree with you totally. If God puts you in a position where there truly are no good churches around, then that means a good church *desperately* needs to be planted in that area!!!
 
why does he have to move???

PLANT A CHURCH!!

If there is not a sound church get busy finding a denomination or association that will send a church planter. PLANT A CHURCH!

There are so many reforming pastors and not so many reforming churches.....put two and two together and get a sound church started!!!!

(why does no one ever think about this? To me it is so obvious. No sound church - pray and work to plant one.)

Phillip
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Amen Phillip!

I would also add that I can't imagine that there would be no church within driving distance that at least minimally qualifies as a true church. Now of course it may not be Reformed, but since when have we Reformed folk claimed a church had to be Reformed to be a true church? So in my opinion, you attend the best local option, while you work to plant a solid Reformed church.
 
On the money issue . . . I've known of instances where the deacons of a church have assisted the family so that they can pay for the gas to make the long drive to church.
 
Originally posted by joshua
I do not disagree with the church planting thing I just didn't mention or clarify some exceptions...will have to clarify later.
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Is it later yet?? :P
 
The Belgic Confession of Faith, Article XXVIII
Every One Is Bound to Join Himself to the True Church

We believe, since this holy congregation is an assembly of those who are saved, and outside of it there is no salvation, that no person of whatsoever state or condition he may be, ought to withdraw from it, content to be by himself; but that all men are in duty bound to join and unite themselves with it; maintaining the unity of the Church; submitting themselves to the doctrine and discipline thereof; bowing their necks under the yoke of Jesus Christ; and as mutual members of the same body, serving to the edification of the brethren, according to the talents God has given them.
And that this may be the more effectually observed, it is the duty of all believers, according to the Word of God, to separate themselves from all those who do not belong to the Church, and to join themselves to this congregation, wheresoever God has established it, even though the magistrates and edicts of princes were against it, yea, though they should suffer death or any other corporal punishment. Therefore all those who separate themselves from the same or do not join themselves to it act contrary to the ordinance of God.
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