About Stereotyping

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Ryan&Amber2013

Puritan Board Graduate
So here is my thought and I'd like to see if you all generally agree. All people are individuals and some people of a certain stereotype don't fit the stereotype, so ultimately each person must be judged individually and not according to the stereotype. With that being said, there is very much a reality that certain cultures and people groups are known for certain behaviors, and though not everyone in that group has that behavior, the behavior is a common theme found within the group.

For example, in my town in South Carolina, it is absurd how most people making a left hand turn at an intersection will do this mad dash to try to cross over as soon as the light turns yellow. Like literally three or four cars will just go when the light is yellow to where they run the red light and don't even care. It happens just about at every single intersection I'm at. The town I am from in Florida, it is rare to see people behaving like that. But with that being said, of course not everybody drives like that here. But it is a common theme in the town's culture.

Also, a few weeks ago our van wouldn't start when we were leaving a store. A really nice older lady piled us in her SUV and drove us home. We expressed so much gratitude and said we were thankful that she did that for us because our society is making it hard for people to trust one another now. And I'm thankful she stereotyped us, because she said with us having four young kids she figured we weren't a threat.

So maybe stereotypes are a healthy part of our initial judgment, until we can know individuals on a personal level?
 
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So here is my thought and I'd like to see if you all generally agree. All people are individuals and some people of a certain stereotype don't fit the stereotype, so ultimately each person must be judged individually and not according to the stereotype. With that being said, there is very much a reality that certain cultures and people groups are known for certain behaviors, and though not everyone in that group has that behavior, the behavior is a common theme found within the group.

For example, in my town in South Carolina, it is absurd how most people making a left hand turn at an intersection will do this mad dash to try to cross over as soon as the light turns yellow. Like literally three or four cars will just go when the light is yellow to where they run the red light and don't even care. It happens just about at every single intersection I'm at. The town I am from in Florida, it is rare to see people behaving like that. But with that being said, of course not everybody drives like that here. But it is a common theme in the town's culture.

Also, a few weeks ago our van wouldn't start when we were leaving a store. A really nice older lady piled us in her SUV and drove us home. We expressed so much gratitude and said we were thankful that she did that for us because our society is making it hard for people to trust one another now. And I'm thankful she stereotyped us, because she said with us having four young kids she figured we weren't a threat.

So maybe stereotypes are a healthy part of our initial judgment, until we can know individuals on a personal level?
The question is whether by stereotyping we commit a sin of unjust measures or respecting of persons in our dealings with neighbors. Stereotypes based on experiences, observations, and patterns are a natural function of our brain. However, not all stereotypes are that rational.
 
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The question is whether by stereotyping we commit a sin of unjust measures or respecting of persons in our dealings with neighbors. Stereotypes based on experiences, observations, and patterns are a natural function of our brain. However, stereotypes are that rational.
I really like that. Thank you!
 
Stereotypes are an inevitable part of the process of judgment. It is how we manage the world around us so that we do not go insane from the complexity of it. The key is to make sure we have a place for mercy to triumph over judgment.
 
All Cretans are liars
That's a passage I was thinking about. But in reality, don't you think there was probably at least one that told the truth? If so, wouldn't that statement be false?

I don't feel comfortable making sweeping stereotypes like that, but I don't know how to justify Paul who seems to do exactly that.

For example if someone said it's true that all reformed people are judgemental, I don't think this would be fair as of course not all reformed people are judgemental. So the statement isn't true, though it is a stereotype being made. Now I wouldn't mind if somebody said there are a lot of reformed people who are judgemental. This is still a stereotype, but doesn't include every person in that group.
 
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Aren't the problems here mainly verbal?
All Cretans are liars
This is a true, biblical statement; it's also a proverb, and if we have done any work or thought on the book of Proverbs we know that they are not absolute statements like similar words in other biblical books. 'Train up a child...' isn't an absolute promise. It's an observation about the general pattern of the world which a wise person needs to understand. Of course there are honest Cretans, and well-brought-up kids who go off the rails. In this sense stereotype are essential rules of thumb for navigating the world.

The issue with the word 'stereotype' is that it can be used in two ways. It can be a natural, neutral observation like a proverb... A way of condensing clear general truths. Men are more likely to be violent. Women are more likely to gossip. And we need this capacity to observe differences between groups, between cultures, and so on.

But that's often not what people mean when they use the word, and that's why it is usually negative. I'd have thought the usual use would be a viewpoint like that that can't be changed by data or observation - the view of another group that's negative and unchangeable, and which doesn't take circumstances into account - an ancient Greek saying women are stupid and impulsive compared to men; when they meet a clever woman (like Gorgo in Sparta) they ask what's weird about that woman, or about Sparta, not what's wrong with their view. A British colonialist might have said 'all the natives here are lazy'... But you look at that culture now and you see an obsessive hustle culture (thinking of real examples here!). These are prejudices in the original, etymological sense of the word - I will pre-judge you based on your membership of a group and evidence doesn't matter.

And of course is that it's really hard to tell the difference sometimes. Is my stereotyped generalisation about British tourists or Americans or another social class or the culture of a group of another race a sensible rule of thumb observation or a biased, blind predjudice?

I think about this quite often. Social class is the biggest division in the UK, bigger than race, and the gap between middle and working class (which are not the same, and which do not mean anything like what they mean in the US) is huge. I'm middle class; so it's much church culture and many of the ministers we tend to learn from.

But I work in (and love) an area that's working class, and the culture is really different, the challenges are really different, and so on.

How do I think about that carefully and without predjudice? Even harder, how do I talk to others about the negative aspects of working class culture that make ministry hard? The positive ones are ok, but it's easy to give the impression your are just predjudiced when you say something negative about a group your own group usually looks down on... Even when you are actually making a factual statement about a common struggle in your congregation.

And after all plenty people who bring up these negative facets of the culture really are predjudiced in the bad sense, so watching how we speak about it can be really important.
 
All Cretans are liars
This isn't really an example of a stereotype as much as a convenient reference to a well-known proverbial paradox - a prophet, who was himself a Cretan, said that all Cretans are liars - the paradox being that his statement could not have been true because if it were true, then he, a Cretan, wouldn't have said it; conversely, if someone took the stereotype seriously, it would be humorously pointed out that a Cretan said that. Of coure the real historical context of the prophet's statement wasn't even about stereotyping Cretans, but a criticism of common contradictory traditions surrounding their cult of Zeus.

Paul did say that the paradox was true, but he didn't really mean it either. He was writing advice for ministry to Cretan christians. He wasn't calling those liars, but specifically some who were misleading and sowing division among the church.
 
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The issue with the word 'stereotype' is that it can be used in two ways. It can be a natural, neutral observation like a proverb... A way of condensing clear general truths. Men are more likely to be violent. Women are more likely to gossip.
Thanks for this, and it was really well thought out. My thought is that it's one thing to say men are more likely to be violent, and another to say all men are violent. Paul seems to be affirming that an entire people group are liars. Not just saying the Cretans tend to be liars. Any thoughts? Thanks!
 
The question is whether by stereotyping we commit a sin of unjust measures or respecting of persons in our dealings with neighbors. Stereotypes based on experiences, observations, and patterns are a natural function of our brain. However, not all stereotypes are that rational.
I think another important consideration is how stereotypes are formed. In my mind, this is what leads to the sin of unjustly and uncharitably judging others. For example, I think in America in the year of our Lord 2026, the media forms and wants to form many stereotypes in the U.S. This leads to people who have barely interacted with certain groups but hold very strong opinions about these groups based solely on what they see on tv and the internet.
 
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I don't feel comfortable making sweeping stereotypes like that, but I don't know how to justify Paul who seems to do exactly that.
Maybe because liberal propaganda has taken and you can't see through the mask of socialization to the truth of the scripture? You have a belief about the Cretans that isn't based on any evidence, merely feelings. You don't believe it is true because that is what you have been taught to believe by a secular society. Even if you've met modern Cretans that you haven't seen lying, you 1) haven't seen them in all circumstances at all times, and 2) you certainly never met any that were around during Paul's day.

Why do you doubt Paul? Because you've taken the green pill and think the way secular society wants you to think.

For example if someone said it's true that all reformed people are judgemental, I don't think this would be fair as of course not all reformed people are judgemental.
Or perhaps the non-judgmental folks you think are Reformed aren't really reformed.

Folks, don't under rate critical thinking. Don't believe everything you were taught as a child.
 
Maybe because liberal propaganda has taken and you can't see through the mask of socialization to the truth of the scripture? You have a belief about the Cretans that isn't based on any evidence, merely feelings. You don't believe it is true because that is what you have been taught to believe by a secular society. Even if you've met modern Cretans that you haven't seen lying, you 1) haven't seen them in all circumstances at all times, and 2) you certainly never met any that were around during Paul's day.

Why do you doubt Paul? Because you've taken the green pill and think the way secular society wants you to think.


Or perhaps the non-judgmental folks you think are Reformed aren't really reformed.

Folks, don't under rate critical thinking. Don't believe everything you were taught as a child.
So you think the simple answer is that all the Cretans were actually liars? Google says at the time of Paul's writing there were roughly at least 200,000 Cretans. How could he have known all of them?
 
Stereotypes (more properly, generalized prejudgment/general statements) are tricky, and I have yet to find a satisfying criteria for when such judgments are justified, though I do have a number of thoughts on contenders for what could justify them*.

It seems to me in the face of uncertainty that the best way to go is:

1) If you make such a judgment, you have to recognize that there might not only be rare exceptions but tons and tons of exceptions. That your stereotype might only actually be true of 1-2% of the whole population. If you keep that in mind, then the reputation the population gained will be tempered with the reality of the fraction of the population for whom it is true.

2) Conditional probability. Suppose that only 1-2% of a population actually do exhibit the stereotype under question. If you randomly meet someone, then there is only a 1-2% chance that they actually exhibit that trait. However, what if that 1-2% of the population is concentrated in a geographical region or among a demographic (like age or education level or wealth) or that the trait is connected to other traits (like clothing styles)? If you happen to be in an area or run into a member of that demographic or observe a trait connected to such traits, then the probability that an individual is among those 1-2% is much larger, and so the pre-judgment becomes more justified until or unless more information arrives about that individual.


*Some contenders for when a stereotype/generalized judgment is justified.

1) Some reasonable threshold like > 50% of a population exhibit a trait.

2) For moral traits specifically (though could apply to other traits too), maybe only some of a population actually exhibits a trait but > 50% approve of that behavior or permit it or something aside from disapproval. In that case, a larger part of the population is taking part in the action in a way: they would do it too if it weren't for X.

3) Only a small proportion of the population exhibit a trait, but the rest of the population find themselves identifying with the individuals as their own and the actions of those individuals as the action of the population. This is a represenative theory of general judgment, I suppose.

None of these fully satisfy me, since I'm uncertain whether Paul's judgment of those in Crete falls into any of these categories. The only other thing I can think of is what I mentioned earlier: it is possible that the judgment only applies to a small percentage of the population but for whatever reason by reputation or pervasiveness of the actions of those individuals, the whole population becomes tarnished. We can then rightly speak of the whole population in general terms, so long as we recognize the reality that the majority of individuals are not like that and then use conditional probability when encountering individuals.
 
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Well, Claude just helped me solve this problem satisfactorily to my mind and identified the literature that I would need to find in order to investigate further. Claude gave cautions on potentially hallucinated references since it came from training data. But anyway, here is the output.

"[T]he philosophy of language has actually worked on exactly this problem extensively under the heading of generic sentences. That literature is directly relevant to what you're trying to do.


Here's a taxonomy that I think captures the distinct kinds:


1. Comparative: "Men are taller than women." Claims group A's distribution is shifted relative to group B's on some measure. Truth conditions are straightforward — compare the distributions. As you noted, can be true even with tiny absolute rates and massive overlap.


2. Statistical majority: "Most Americans own cars." Explicitly quantified. Truth requires >50%. Easy to evaluate.


3. Tendency/disposition: "Men tend to like sports." This sounds comparative but might not be. It could mean "more than women" (hidden comparative) or it could mean "more men like sports than don't" (majority claim) or just "it's a common trait among men" (something weaker). The ambiguity is part of why these are slippery. You should force yourself to ask which one is actually being claimed.


4. Bare generic characterization: "Cretans are liars." "Gen Z is lazy." This is the hard case, and it's the one you're actually wrestling with.


The linguistics and philosophy literature on generics is what you want here. Generics are sentences of the form "Ks are F" — "dogs bark," "mosquitoes carry malaria," "ducks lay eggs." The striking finding is that there is no single threshold that makes a generic true. The required prevalence shifts depending on the type of property:


For dangerous or striking properties, people accept generics at very low prevalence. "Mosquitoes carry malaria" is accepted as true even though a tiny fraction of mosquitoes actually carry the parasite. "Pit bulls are dangerous" gets accepted even if most pit bulls never bite anyone. The property being salient, harmful, or attention-grabbing lowers the threshold dramatically.


For characteristic activities, a moderate threshold is expected. "Birds fly" feels true even though penguins, ostriches, and kiwis don't, because flying is seen as what birds characteristically do.


For mundane statistical properties, you basically need a majority. "Americans are right-handed" works. "Americans are left-handed" doesn't, even though millions are.


This maps directly onto your problem. "Cretans are liars" probably functions like the dangerous/striking type — it takes a relatively small number of salient, memorable encounters with Cretan dishonesty to make the generic feel "true" to speakers, because dishonesty is a morally charged, high-salience property. That's not a statistical claim about majority behavior. It's closer to: "the trait is sufficiently prevalent and salient that it's a characteristic risk of the group."


This is both illuminating and troubling, because it means negative generics about groups can feel (and linguistically function as) "true" at very low actual prevalence, precisely because negative traits are salient. That's a built-in bias in how generics work — not a bias in the perceiver's psychology, but in the semantics of the sentence form itself."

There is also a possibility of representation (my Category 3 from earlier). Here is Claude's more full analysis, though it is more terse than above, which is why I pasted the above first. I would note as well that r = 0.5 in Jussim is remarkably high for social science but in absolute terms leaves plenty of variance still. All who are nerds like me, enjoy!


Taxonomy of Group-Level Generalizations​


The Core Question​


When can a general statement be made about a group, and what would make that statement justified? The answer depends on what kind of statement is being made. Different forms of generalization have different truth conditions, different evidence requirements, and different failure modes.




Type 1: Comparative Statements​


Form: "Group A is more X than Group B."


Examples: "Men are taller than women." "Blacks are more likely to be incarcerated than whites." "Scandinavian countries have higher social trust than Mediterranean countries."


Truth conditions: Group A's distribution on some measure is shifted relative to Group B's. This is straightforward to evaluate empirically—compare the distributions.


Mathematical framing: If μ_A > μ_B for some measured trait, the comparative statement is true regardless of the absolute values or the degree of overlap between distributions. The effect size (often expressed as Cohen's d = (μ_A − μ_B) / σ_pooled) captures how large the shift is. For most psychological and behavioral traits, d is in the range 0.2–0.5 (small to moderate), meaning the distributions overlap enormously. Even for a moderate effect size of d = 0.5, roughly 69% of the higher group exceeds the other group's mean—real, but leaving massive individual-level overlap.


Key feature: Can be true even when the absolute rates are tiny (e.g., 5% vs 1%), and even when the vast majority of individuals in both groups are indistinguishable. The statement is about distributional shift, not about what is typical of individuals.


What it does NOT tell you: Whether any given individual from Group A will score higher than a given individual from Group B. For d = 0.5, if you randomly draw one person from each group, the person from the "higher" group scores higher only about 64% of the time.




Type 2: Statistical Majority Claims​


Form: "Most Ks are F." / Explicitly quantified claims.


Examples: "Most Americans own cars." "The majority of Norwegians speak English."


Truth conditions: >50% of the group has the trait (or whatever threshold is explicitly stated).


Mathematical framing: P(trait | group member) > 0.5. Straightforward to evaluate by measuring the rate.


Key feature: The simplest and least ambiguous type. Also the rarest in everyday speech—people rarely make explicitly quantified group claims.




Type 3: Tendency/Disposition Claims​


Form: "Ks tend to be F." / "Ks are generally F."


Examples: "Men tend to like sports." "Women are generally more empathetic." "Old people tend to be conservative."


Truth conditions: Ambiguous. Could mean any of:


  • Hidden comparative: "more than some reference group" (→ Type 1)
  • Majority claim: "more of them are F than not" (→ Type 2)
  • Something weaker: "it is common among them" (no fixed threshold)

Key feature: The ambiguity is the problem. When evaluating a tendency claim, the first step is forcing precision: which of the above is actually being asserted? Different evidence applies to each interpretation. Much everyday disagreement about stereotypes comes from people interpreting the same tendency claim differently.




Type 4: Bare Generic Characterizations (Distributional)​


Form: "Ks are F." (No quantifier, no comparison group stated.)


Examples: "Cretans are liars." "Gen Z is lazy." "Pit bulls are dangerous." "Birds fly." "Mosquitoes carry malaria."


Truth conditions: This is the hard case. The linguistics and philosophy literature on generic sentences shows that there is no single prevalence threshold that makes a generic true. The threshold shifts depending on the type of property being attributed:


4a: Dangerous or Striking Properties — Very Low Threshold​


Examples: "Mosquitoes carry malaria." "Sharks attack people." "Pit bulls are dangerous."


Accepted as true even at very low prevalence (a tiny fraction of mosquitoes carry malaria; most sharks never attack anyone). The property being harmful, frightening, or attention-grabbing lowers the required threshold dramatically.


Mathematical framing: Something like: P(harm | encounter with K) is low in absolute terms, but the cost of the harm is high enough that P(harm | K) × Cost(harm) produces a salient expected-damage value. Alternatively, P(trait | K) > P(trait | not-K), and the trait is dangerous enough that even a modest elevation in probability warrants generalization.


Failure mode: This is precisely where negative stereotypes about human groups become most dangerous. Negative, frightening, or morally charged traits get generalized to groups at prevalence levels where positive or neutral traits would not. This is not a bias in the perceiver—it is a feature of how generic sentences work semantically. The sentence form itself biases toward over-attribution of negative traits.


4b: Characteristic Activities — Moderate Threshold​


Examples: "Birds fly." "Dogs bark." "Italians eat pasta."


The trait is seen as characteristic of what the kind does—part of its nature or identity. Exceptions are tolerated (penguins don't fly, some dogs are mute) because the trait is understood as what the kind is for or about.


Mathematical framing: No clean threshold, but roughly: the trait should be modal (more common than any single alternative) and conceptually central to the kind. It need not characterize a majority if it is sufficiently identity-defining.


4c: Mundane Statistical Properties — Majority Threshold​


Examples: "Americans are right-handed." (True—~90%.) "Americans are left-handed." (Feels false—~10%, despite millions.)


For properties that are not dangerous, striking, or identity-defining, a bare generic effectively requires a statistical majority to feel true. This is the closest to a simple >50% rule.


Mathematical framing: P(trait | group member) must be high enough that the trait is typical—roughly >50%, and probably higher for the generic to feel natural.




Type 5: Structural/Representational Characterizations​


Form: "Ks are F." (Same surface form as Type 4, but grounded differently.)


Examples: "America is imperialist." "The Catholic Church covered up abuse." "Sparta was militaristic." Possibly: "Cretans are liars" (if driven by Cretan cultural institutions, collective claims like the Zeus tomb story, or piracy as an organized practice).


Truth conditions: The trait is attributed to the group not because of individual prevalence, but because the group's institutions, representatives, collective decisions, norms, or cultural identity manifest the trait. The group acts as a group, and the characterization is about what the group does collectively.


Mathematical framing: Individual prevalence is largely irrelevant. P(trait | individual member) could be very low and the characterization still justified. The relevant question is not distributional but structural: Does the group's institutional or representative apparatus produce, incentivize, tolerate, or symbolize the trait?


Key features:


  • Bypasses individual prevalence entirely. "America is interventionist" requires zero threshold of individual Americans being interventionist.
  • Operates on a different axis from Types 1–4. Types 1–4 all concern the distribution of traits among individuals within the group, just with varying thresholds. Type 5 concerns the group as an agent or entity.
  • Can coexist with Type 4 readings. "Cretans are liars" might be simultaneously a Type 4a generic (dangerous/striking trait, low threshold) and a Type 5 structural claim (Cretan institutions or collective cultural acts produced the reputation). Different evidence is relevant for each reading.

Evaluation criteria (distinct from Types 1–4):


  • Are the group's institutions, laws, or norms structured in ways that produce or incentivize the trait?
  • Do the group's recognized representatives or leaders exhibit the trait in their representative capacity?
  • Does the group collectively identify with the trait or the actions that manifest it?
  • Is there a mechanism by which the group acts as a unit in ways that exhibit the trait?



Cross-Cutting Considerations​


The Diagnosticity Question​


Regardless of type, a group-level claim becomes more informative (and arguably more "justified" as a basis for prediction) when the trait is diagnostic—i.e., when group membership substantially shifts the probability relative to the base rate.


Mathematical framing: What matters is not P(trait | group) alone, but the likelihood ratio P(trait | group) / P(trait | not-group). A trait found in 3% of a group is highly diagnostic if it is found in 0.01% of everyone else, and barely diagnostic if it is found in 2.5% of everyone else.


Conditional Probability and Context​


Even when a trait is rare in a group overall, it may be concentrated in subpopulations, regions, or contexts. If you are in such a context, the conditional probability P(trait | group member AND context) may be much higher than the unconditional P(trait | group member). This can make a generalization practically useful in specific situations while being misleading as a blanket statement.


The Gap Between Statistical Intuition and Generic Packaging​


The stereotype accuracy literature (Jussim et al.) shows that people's quantitative estimates of group differences are often roughly calibrated—their comparative intuitions track reality at moderate-to-high correlations (r ≈ .5 for personal stereotypes, higher for consensual ones). But stereotypes as actually held and deployed are typically bare generics (Type 4), not comparative statements (Type 1). The generic form suppresses within-group variation, erases base rates, and lowers thresholds for negative traits. So people can be decent intuitive statisticians and deploy those intuitions in a sentence form that systematically overclaims.


Individual Prediction​


Across nearly all studies, stereotype biases in person perception average r ≈ .10 when individuating information is available, and r ≈ .25 when it is not. This means that once you know something specific about an individual, their group membership adds almost nothing to prediction accuracy. Group-level generalizations, even when accurate at the group level, are weak tools for judging individuals.




Key Sources​


Stereotype Accuracy​


  • Jussim, L. (2012). Social Perception and Social Reality: Why Accuracy Dominates Bias and Self-Fulfilling Prophecy. Oxford University Press. — The primary monograph arguing that stereotype accuracy is large and replicable.
  • Jussim, L., Crawford, J.T., Anglin, S.M., et al. (2016). "Stereotype accuracy: One of the largest and most replicable effects in all of social psychology." In T. Nelson (Ed.), Handbook of Prejudice, Stereotyping, and Discrimination (2nd ed.), pp. 31–63. — The chapter making the title claim, reviewing 50+ studies.
  • Jussim, L., Crawford, J.T., & Rubinstein, R.S. (2015). "Stereotype (In)Accuracy in Perceptions of Groups and Individuals." Current Directions in Psychological Science, 24(6), 490–497. — Shorter review addressing both group-level accuracy and individual-level application.

Generic Sentences (Philosophy of Language / Cognitive Science)​


  • Leslie, S.-J. (2007). "Generics and the Structure of the Mind." Philosophical Perspectives, 21, 375–403. — Foundational paper arguing that generics are a cognitively primitive form of generalization with context-dependent truth conditions.
  • Leslie, S.-J. (2008). "Generics: Cognition and Acquisition." Philosophical Review, 117(1), 1–47. — Extends the framework to how children acquire generic concepts.
  • Leslie, S.-J. (2017). "The Original Sin of Cognition: Fear, Prejudice, and Generalization." Journal of Philosophy, 114(8), 393–421. — Directly connects the generics framework to stereotyping and prejudice, arguing that the cognitive machinery for generics is biased toward over-generalizing dangerous properties. Highly relevant to this taxonomy.
  • Prasada, S. & Dillingham, E. (2006). "Principled and statistical connections in common sense conception." Cognition, 99(1), 73–112. — Distinguishes between properties connected to kinds by principle vs. by statistical association.

National Character Stereotypes (A Notable Exception to Accuracy)​


  • McCrae, R.R., Chan, W., Jussim, L., et al. (2013). "The Inaccuracy of National Character Stereotypes." Journal of Research in Personality, 47(6), 831–842. — Shows that national personality stereotypes specifically do not track measured personality differences well.
 
Examples: "Americans are right-handed." (True—~90%.) "Americans are left-handed." (Feels false—~10%, despite millions.)


For properties that are not dangerous, striking, or identity-defining, a bare generic effectively requires a statistical majority to feel true. This is the closest to a simple >50% rule.
This is a good example of where I need to try to figure out what Paul is getting at. If anyone has more good information please share. So I would say it would be a fallacy for me to say that "all" Americans are right-handed. That is not a truthful statement because not all are. It would be legitimate for me to say the majority of Americans are right-handed. To me this would be an accurate way to use a stereotype, and this one just happens to be based on fact.

So how can Paul say it is true that "all" Cretans are liars when I'm pretty sure he did not know all of them? I think this is important to me because there are some really messed up people right now using a text like this to justify race-based prejudice against people groups.
 
This isn't really an example of a stereotype as much as a convenient reference to a well-known proverbial paradox - a prophet, who was himself a Cretan, said that all Cretans are liars - the paradox being that his statement could not have been true because if it were true, then he, a Cretan, wouldn't have said it; conversely, if someone took the stereotype seriously, it would be humorously pointed out that a Cretan said that. Of coure the real historical context of the prophet's statement wasn't even about stereotyping Cretans, but a criticism of common contradictory traditions surrounding their cult of Zeus.

Paul did say that the paradox was true, but he didn't really mean it either. He was writing advice for ministry to Cretan christians. He wasn't calling those liars, but specifically some who were misleading and sowing division among the church.
Talk about missing the forest for the trees. LOL. The proverbial statement IS a stereotype of an entire people... which means that enough of the people were characterized by a particular behavior for long enough that the stereotype became a proverbial statement... this is why Paul doesn't just repeat the saying, but he goes on to affirm it as TRUE (which of course means generally true, since the statement itself is a general commentary), and he prescribes a sharp course of action to ensure that the people are sound in the faith - their general bestial character must be overcome by discipline.
 
Is it true that all of Israel and Judah fell away from God? No, but Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel often say so, without always mentioning the believing remnant. Apparently, generalization is not a sin.
 
This is a good example of where I need to try to figure out what Paul is getting at. If anyone has more good information please share. So I would say it would be a fallacy for me to say that "all" Americans are right-handed. That is not a truthful statement because not all are. It would be legitimate for me to say the majority of Americans are right-handed. To me this would be an accurate way to use a stereotype, and this one just happens to be based on fact.

So how can Paul say it is true that "all" Cretans are liars when I'm pretty sure he did not know all of them? I think this is important to me because there are some really messed up people right now using a text like this to justify race-based prejudice against people groups.
The key is the notion of a general statement. The "all" here does not mean everyone, but he is using "all" in order to speak generally. As you can see from my post, these general statements have lots of different specific meanings--each with their own ways to validate their truthfulness, and you have to parse out which one a person intends by them. General statements are valid statements that we can make.

I think Paul meant something along Type 4a, not a majority statement (> 50%), and potentially may have had something along Type 5 in mind (such behavior tolerated or even celebrated to the point it is a norm in the culture), but my guess is that this was simply a reputation of the people developed from enough encounters with the behavior, so Type 4a. Regardless, even if only a small percent actually engaged in the behavior, it was prevalent enough and dangerous enough to validate a general statement, and there was an elevated risk of encountering such behavior in the Cretan group.

The way to avoid racial prejudice is to recognize the limitations of the various kinds of general statements. In the case of Type 4a, the limitation is that there may be few of whom the statement is actually true. Races as conceptualized today are highly diverse conglomerates of very different people genetically, genealogically, and culturally.

As for the messed-up crowd who abuse this passage today, I would additionally note:

1) The passage doesn't talk about race in the way that they mean it today. The Cretans are a tiny island of people who would belong to the "white" race on their reckoning (though they had ancient Hamitic ancestry, so who knows? These guys aren't always the most consistent of people.).

2) The passage does not attribute the qualities to their race but merely speaks of their character and simply notes that this is prevalent among them without providing a racial or biological grounding for the behavior. Attributing the sins to something beyond the culture is adding something into the text.

3) The point of the passage is rebuke so that the Cretans will be changed. This runs contrary to an idea that these traits are immutable tendencies. (Or, if you prefer the idea that Cretan teachers will be rebuked sharply so the Cretan flock will be sound in the faith, we end up at the same place: the Cretan nature is not so immutable that the Cretan members of the church cannot be changed and established to be sound in the faith.) Moreover, the fact that there were Cretan elders shows that these tendencies can be changed so much that the highest of offices in the church can be held in accordance with the character Paul had just laid out in Titus and lays out in Timothy. This is in fact the expectation that such men will be found, since Titus has been told to ordain elders.


Edit: Also of interest, Titus is specifically warned against genealogies (Titus 3:9-10) as being among the things to avoid that heretics and false teachers will bring. Look at Calvin's commentary on the passage. Craig Scott has a good sermon on this place in Titus also. Racial disputes such as what such people bring up today are expressly condemned here, and they would be among those who would need to be rebuked sharply.
 
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So you think the simple answer is that all the Cretans were actually liars?
Yes.

And in return, I'll ask you a question and ask you to answer honestly.

How many people have you known that have never, in their entire life, told at least one lie?

"Men are taller than women."
Objectively universally false as an unqualified statement.

"Blacks are more likely to be incarcerated than whites."
Likely false as an unqualified statement. I would think that the number of Asians incarcerated in China and India might skew the numbers on a universal basis, but perhaps enough non-incarcerated people in those countries so that the statement is a universal truth.

Both of these examples can be proven or disproven, in the first case disproven by finding one male that's shorter than a female (although some judges and politicians can't tell the difference), the second by a quick statistical analysis if one wants to go to the trouble to pull the numbers. (According to AI, worldwide numbers aren't available, so perhaps we will never know if the second proposition is true or false.
 
Talk about missing the forest for the trees. LOL. The proverbial statement IS a stereotype of an entire people... which means that enough of the people were characterized by a particular behavior for long enough that the stereotype became a proverbial statement... this is why Paul doesn't just repeat the saying, but he goes on to affirm it as TRUE (which of course means generally true, since the statement itself is a general commentary), and he prescribes a sharp course of action to ensure that the people are sound in the faith - their general bestial character must be overcome by discipline.
If it were a common stereotype, he wouldn't have invoked a pagan prophet from hundreds of years ago, but the fact that both he and Titus were familiar with this specific quotation by this specific man outside of its original critique of Cretan devotion to Zeus strongly suggests that the oddity of the statement itself was more popular among Greek speakers than any actual stereotype of Cretans being liars. To the extent that Cretans became associated with this stereotype, it was probably due to the popular repetition of the quotation among people who never met a Cretan, which would be an example of an irrational stereotype. It seems unlikely that Paul himself spent enough time in Crete to develop such a stereotype based on experience.
 
An interesting asside to the Cretan prophet mentioned by Paul to Titus - this was Epimenedes of Knossos. Aside from this quote he was also famous for coming to Athens in a time of plague and supposedly resolving the plague by bringing a herd of sheep to the Areopagus and having an altar built to "a suitable God" wherever the sheep lay down. It was probably one such altar that Paul saw when he noted an altar to an unknown God.
 
If it were a common stereotype, he wouldn't have invoked a pagan prophet from hundreds of years ago, but the fact that both he and Titus were familiar with this specific quotation by this specific man outside of its original critique of Cretan devotion to Zeus strongly suggests that the oddity of the statement itself was more popular among Greek speakers than any actual stereotype of Cretans being liars. To the extent that Cretans became associated with this stereotype, it was probably due to the popular repetition of the quotation among people who never met a Cretan, which would be an example of an irrational stereotype. It seems unlikely that Paul himself spent enough time in Crete to develop such a stereotype based on experience.
He’s saying it’s so commonly known that even their own acknowledge it.

Which is saying a lot because few people want to acknowledge stereotypes against their own.

That it was a pretty commonly known and generally accepted stereotype.
 
Oh good grief. Ethnic stereotypes. Can I resist getting in on this one?

No, I can't. I'm Italian. Blunt and direct. Rude, others would call it. So I fit that stereotype for some people. But send me to Sicily? I'd get walked over because I'm not "in yer face!!!" enough. Some stereotypes apply even better to some parts of a group than to the majority.

Ever heard my joke?

"What's the difference between a hillbilly and an Italian?"
"We dress better, and carry shorter guns we can hide better."

I said that to a friend who is a retired female state trooper, and Italian, and from the Ozarks, and she said, "How do I fit?" My answer: "You get top marks on uniform inspections AND on the firing range!" I don't know how long it took her stop laughing.

Both stereotypes fit her ABSOLUTELY.

How about this stereotype:

"You get in my face, I get in your face. Just business, nothing personal. But you mess with my family, I mess with your face."

Go ask me how I acted the last time someone went after my wife. I don't get mad, I get even.

Now go figure out how ANY of that worked around the Hollanders of West Michigan. I think some of them had the idea that Darrell is what you'd get if Lucky Luciano or Al Capone became Reformed. And for the Dutch from Chicago, some of whom had family in the Dutch-owned garbage business in "Old Chicago" and knew EXACTLY how the "Chicago Outfit" acted, some of them used to joke that the best thing the CRC conservatives could do would be to find ten more reporters like me who couldn't be bullied and would go after the liberals with vicious venom. My response? Find me ten more Italian Calvinists and I'll start an Italian Reformed church. The last Italian Reformed church in Chicago died following World War II due to anti-Italian sentiment during the war causing all the young people to leave for "American" (i.e. English-speaking) Reformed or Presbyterian churches. And yes, the pastor really DID have "connections" -- he would bury the Mob deaths who the Catholic priests wouldn't bury, and counsel the widows and orphans, and a fair number joined his church, to the point that Capone put the word out to upset people, "Leave him alone, he does good work."

Stereotypes exist. They are never perfect. Nobody who knows me, for example, would ever accuse me of being a "Latin Lover" or keeping mistresses, despite the Italian stereotype. And I don't drink, period, because I've photographed and reported on too many fatal car crashes and have alcoholics in my family who drank themselves to death.

But they apply to enough people in a group that they stick, or they would never have become stereotypes at all.
 

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