Analyzing "God and the Absolute".

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jwright82

Puritan Board Professor
I think, for myself, anyone wanting to grapple with Van Til's method and thought ought to begin with his PhD dissertation "God And The Absolute" because it really lays out his motives and goals in his career.
I've already posted it in other threads so I probably won't here but I think I'll start with an overview and then get into the meat of the dissertation. Essentially, historically speaking, Idealism was a very big picture "god's eye view" type of thinking.
It essentially saw all particulars of reality involved in each other to such a degree as being basically one thing (unity). So the age old problem of unity and diversity (one and the many problem) is already in view here, to some degree. The Absolute is essentially "god" who is so connected, in an almost extreme pantheistic way, so as to be correlative to man and creation. That is both the Creator and the creature are on metaphysical, epistemological, and moral equal ground.
That makes a third thing greater than God, let me explain. We both must appeal to the same standard of whatever. That's what a correlation theology gets you, if God is so far up there we need to drag him down here so we can be on the same ground as him, to supposedly understand him. He may be greater in all ways to me but the comparison puts us on equal ground (more on that later, maybe) with him.
That is because both god and man are on a mission of self-discovery of what "Absolute knowledge" is we're in this together. Even though the Absolute is greater than us it's like we're just kids playing on a playground and he's the older kid (no difference except quantity of being, knowledge, morality, etc).
Now there is variety to Idealism but his analysis of Pragmatism is that essentially it's the same god. Pragmatism was a reaction to the Idealism prevalent of the day, I won't get into the overlap but that's an interesting study.
It (Pragmatism) rejected the totalizing view of Idealism and focused on the individual and their perspective. So they critiqued Idealism for that. So their theories of everything were from an individual point of view (Existentialism did the same thing, along with Analytical Philosophy).
But for them, like Idealism, god was finite and only in a correlative relationship with man and creation. Here I think he's right, at least on William James (who he quotes in the dissertation).
He doesn't get into the famous theory of truth or anything but only the big picture reality they posit. I'll try to make my analysis concise for space.
So that's his thesis, even though they were critical of one another they posit the same God. Only the Theist (I take him to mean Reformed here only because that's what he later settled on, I'll defend that claim if anyone asks) can rightly interpret the world we experience.
I'll post about the sections right now just to break it up.
 
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The first two paragraphs basically state his thesis. "In many quarters the idea seems to prevail that Idealism and Christianity have found an alliance against all forms of Pragmatism" (I personally think this is a comment on the opinion of the time between the two views that he rejects) pg. 7 (all quotes are taken from the book "Christianity And Idealism" by P and R publishing 1955).
First section on "Pragmatism". "Why should Theism consider Pragmatism to be it's enemy?" (Page 7). (Footnotes: 1 is the most important "We use the term Theism to signify biblical Theism, of which we take the notion of an absolute, self-sufficient, personal God to be the central metaphysical concept, 2 By Pragmatism we signify not only the movement properly so-called, but also all other movements that avow the evolution concept as a metaphysical tenet).
I think footnote 1 is sufficient to show it's Reformed Traditional theology he has in mind as his later writings reveal. Also no correlationist theology is in mind (absolute, etc). Footnote 2 is interesting because in a correlation theology God is on our same level (in some way, however the person defines it) evolving with us.
This is interesting, on page 8, "Pragmatism maintains a thorough metaphysical relativism, while Theism must not compromise on the conception of God as a self-conscious, absolute personality".
Two things here, God is not some abstract thing (like in Pragmatism and Idealism) but absolutely personal. In his view of Pragmatism everything is on the same level metaphysically so it's value is relative.
He next tackles "neutrality" in our thoughts. Basically he's arguing for a "biased" or "prejudiced" approach by the Christian. I don't think anyone disagrees with that, we're Christians we can't start from any other point.
"The Theist, on the other hand, because of his "bias" must have an absolute God. If God were not absolute, if for him analysis does not have significance apart from and synthesis (that is his omniscient knowledge already knows analytically all things and he doesn't need to synthesis anything because he already knows it), man would have to interpret facts by himself. (If God has to combine new knowledge together with old knowledge, then we're in the same boat he's in that's synthesis)."
"Interpretation of reality cannot be a co-operative enterprise between God and man. Co-operation presupposes equal ultimacy (that is co-operation equals correlative relationships with God because we're both children on the same playground, which exists outside us and we're both accountable to it because we're both forced to play on the same playground. Unlike the Theistic opinion of the playground being God's creation under him and under his control)."
He then raises the question of if Idealism has the same "god ", essentially, as Pragmatism than doesn't that put it in the same boat against Theism (Reformed, biblical Christianity)?
 
What I mean by the playground analogy. If God and man are correlative of one another than an equal playing field is needed for our interactions.
But an equal playing field is, in some sense, greater than both parties because we need it to play on, an equal ground in all ways. Metaphysically he's greater than us but on a standard outside of both that we must both appeal to (greater or lesser being, knowledge, morality etc).
But as the Theist believes creation is subservient to the Creator so not only are we different but similar enough for his revelation to make sense to us. But Creator and creature are two different types of things. There's no third thing to compare either party to. Only creature to Creator.
God is the Triune absolute personality of aseity, we are dependent against his independence. So the correct comparison is not God and us compared to some outside standards (playground) but us to him, as far as an image can be compared to the original.
I hope that makes sense.
 
The Absolute is essentially "god" who is so connected, in an almost extreme pantheistic way, so as to be correlative to man and creation. That is both the Creator and the creature are on metaphysical, epistemological, and moral equal ground.

I was just reading an old reformed book on controversies, which contains a break down of Spinoza's errors. I've never been quite sure whether he should be classified as an idealist (some place him there), but his one substance view is basically what CVT was exposing. Reading the one after the other helped to place the problem in the sunlight. Thanks.
 
I hope all this is making sense honestly
I was just reading an old reformed book on controversies, which contains a break down of Spinoza's errors. I've never been quite sure whether he should be classified as an idealist (some place him there), but his one substance view is basically what CVT was exposing. Reading the one after the other helped to place the problem in the sunlight. Thanks.
No problem. Spinoza thought that instead of multiple substances underlying everything, you only need one substance (God in pantheistic form) and everything is just like a vibration or permutations of the one substance. Correlative theology for sure.
I don't think he's an Idealist though, that term didn't technically make sense until Kant. But thanks for the likes, I'm trying to finish but I'm going to wait until tomorrow night to do so.
Next is Van Til's take on Idealism and then the conclusion. But I think any theological mutualist position can be safely rejected as not conforming to his thoughts. Also other misconceptions that I hope to tackle along the way. But any criticism or questions are welcome, I don't know if I'm getting this right so respond or PM me anyone, I'm not trying to be smart only explaining an important person to me. So if I'm not doing that than I failed. So please any corrections, criticism, or questions are welcome.
 
Well as we have seen Van Til has been exposing Pragmatism to Theism to show that it's "God" doesn't measure up to the biblical one. Maybe Idealism can do it, in fact in his time many people thought that about Idealism and Christianity.
Idealism is a multi facetious philosophy and I for one think he way over generalized everything but remember his basic problem is correlative theology.
Page 13 "In metaphysics Theism has an absolute God (absolutely personal remember) and temporal creation, while Pragmatism has no absolute God and no temporal creation (see James' "A Pluralistic Universe" on this as well as his interactions with Idealistic thought), but a space-time universe in which God and man are correlatives." For him, any other"god" than an absolutely personal God is unacceptable.
He goes on "in epistemology Theism avows that man's thought is receptively reconstructive of God's interpretation", that is our ectypal theology of creation is merely a "reconstruction" of God's archetypal theology of creation. He does not use those words but I think I can defend him there but it would take some work to a degree (but I'll accept the criticism if it comes).
He next kinda goes into a comparison of Theism to Idealism, flirting if you will, with the idea that Idealism and Christianity are two sides of the same coin. But as I've layed out already he completely rejects any correlative theology between God and man, it's no different with Idealism. In at the end he says that both Pragmatism and Idealism are equally guilty of this.
So what's the conclusion, sorry for the lack of quotations in this one because I would have had to slow down and explain a lot, the Pragmatist and the Idealist both have a developing "god" who is correlative with us in the trenches of experience and learning together but Theism posits an absolutely personal God who is self contained.
So even though the two schools were at war with each other (again the actual relationship is complicated) they both posited a "god" who is not the biblical God. The strength of Van Til is that kind of third way mentality to things (for practical applications see Christopher Watkins work, he says the same thing).
 
I do hope this helps. A correlative "God" is a God who is on the same level as us. But we are creatures and he's the creator. This has implications for our epistemology as well. We can't know what God knows only what he has revealed and we are finite sinful individuals.
 
Would you clarify this for me? The way I am reading the difference between idealism and pragmatism is this: Idealism believes that all things are permutations of the one unity (almost pantheism) and pragmatism believes that there is God, creation, and the absolute medium in which they exist.
 
Would you clarify this for me? The way I am reading the difference between idealism and pragmatism is this: Idealism believes that all things are permutations of the one unity (almost pantheism) and pragmatism believes that there is God, creation, and the absolute medium in which they exist.
Sure. Idealism is pantheism or panentheism and Pragmatism is practically absolute pluralism of things. So on paper complete opposites. Both believe in a "god" of sorts but their god is in development of knowledge.
We are the story, if you will, that Idealism's absolute is working out all knowledge in history. For Pragmatism their god is just that way, not omniscient and such.
Van Til's point is that despite how antagonistic the two are to each other their god is really the same. But compared to the absolutely personal God of Theism they're wrong because their god is correlative with creation. They can't have, to put it shortly, what we have because of the playground problem I told above.
If God and creation are just two beings playing on the same playground (one being older and smarter, stronger, yadda yadda) then what's the playground? It's some third existing realm where both parties are developing. So both depend on it, per se, to exist practically speaking.
Also in Van Til's day a lot of Christian's thought (apparently) that Idealism was our friend philosophically speaking we just need to tweak it to make it "Christian".
Kinda like his later criticism of theologians doing the same with Aristotle. Which I think is a weak point for him and here's why. How much influence is too much influence? Just because a theologian, like Van Til, uses the philosophical tools available to them in the service of their craft, when is it too much?
For Van Til at least we can see a definite answer in the doctrine of God. From the beginning he argued for the biblical God in opposition to the god of Idealism, so that by itself marks his use as not being too influenced on that issue alone.
I started this thread for two reasons. One some people out there criticize, rightfully so in my opinion, for offering interpretations of Van Til to iron out the problems that he appears to have in his thoughts but without a lot of direct quotations.
Also anyone who is deadset on arguing that he's an Idealist basically must contend with this writing in particular because it's one of his earliest writings that we have.
So I think that's the value, hopefully, that this thread contributed in minor way to advance discussion on this subject. I hope that helps?
 
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