Another dispute with a street preacher

[Pergamum]

https://www.facebook.com/OperationReapSouls/videos/927865983956254/

Someone showed me this video, thinking I would approve it.

Instead, I said it was boorish, probably illegal, and should not have been done.

A street preacher barges in and interrupts a church service of a church that is pro-gay. One justification was that Jesus barged into the Temple and over-turned the tables...so we must give these apostate people the gospel and tell them to repent, no matter where they are. My response was that we don't have that same authority as Jesus and we ought not to disrupt the closed door meetings of other denominations, even if they are apostate. They said I was unevangelistic, etc.

How would you answer as to why such practices are right or wrong? Some street preachers seem crazy and not teachable and unlikeable. If you accuse them of this..their answer is that you hate the Gospel. SIGH.....

 

[MW]

How would you answer as to why such practices are right or wrong?

Matt. 15:14, "Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch."

Hos. 4:17, "Ephraim is joined to idols: let him alone."

Denunciation and separation are required because of their unlawful confederacy. They are not in a place which makes them open to the gospel tidings.

The actions of our Saviour Lord were symbolically prophetic. These particular actions were not written to provide a moral example to be imitated.

 

[Pergamum]

Example B of this street preacher's interactions with cops: https://www.facebook.com/OperationReapSouls/videos/917475344995318/

 

[Dwimble]

My first thought whenever I see someone use "Jesus drove them out of the Temple" as a justification for something is that Jesus wasn't driving random sinners out of some building somewhere; He was driving them out of the Temple. The Temple wasn't a "church" or just some building; it was the visible representation of God's dwelling place in the Old Testament. Contrary to what many believe, a church building isn't "God's house." We, His people, are His dwelling place, His Temple, not some building somewhere. The money-changers, et al. were corrupting the Temple. In one sense, when Christ saves any of us, He once again is driving the money-changers and sinners out of His Father's house. Only He can drive sin out of the Temple, not some preacher or anyone else.

We all need Him to over-turn the tables and drive the money-changers out of us.

 

[Parakaleo]

I am sorry to hear a preacher of the gospel speak in a similar tone as those who argue with officers over their right to carry firearms. I do commend them for their zeal. May the Lord kindle it with knowledge.

 

[timfost]

Simply put, Christ drove them out of His house. An apostate church is not the house of a street preacher.

 

[Pergamum]

But being silent compromises the truth. We must take the truth to sinners by whatever means necessary.

 

[py3ak]

But being silent compromises the truth. We must take the truth to sinners by whatever means necessary.

Must we take them hostage at gunpoint and threaten to shoot them in the kneecap if they don't listen?

 

[Pergamum]

Another example. Entering into a homosexual-affirming church to shout out bible verses and picketing pro-gay churches. The bible verses are true...but it is not the right place or time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY05BtiCQlA&feature=youtu.be

 

[Gesetveemet]

When a man has truly been shown by the Lord his own sinfulness he is less likely to throw stones at others.

 

[yeutter]

I am aware of situations where street preachers have been forced off the campus of a State University by public safety officers for speaking in a place that is normally open to the public to speak.

In Dearborn, Michigan the city police routinely harass Christian street preachers.

We can not expect or first amendment rights to be protected by the police. But we must still respect them.

 

[Toasty]

https://www.facebook.com/OperationReapSouls/videos/927865983956254/

Someone showed me this video, thinking I would approve it.

Instead, I said it was boorish, probably illegal, and should not have been done.

A street preacher barges in and interrupts a church service of a church that is pro-gay. One justification was that Jesus barged into the Temple and over-turned the tables...so we must give these apostate people the gospel and tell them to repent, no matter where they are. My response was that we don't have that same authority as Jesus and we ought not to disrupt the closed door meetings of other denominations, even if they are apostate. They said I was unevangelistic, etc.

How would you answer as to why such practices are right or wrong? Some street preachers seem crazy and not teachable and unlikeable. If you accuse them of this..their answer is that you hate the Gospel. SIGH.....

Jesus was not interrupting a worship service. He was interrupting people from buying and selling things.

The street preacher should not be interrupting worship services. If he wants to tell people about the sinfulness of homosexuality, then he should do that outside. If the leadership of the church does not want him on church property, then he should get away from church property and go somewhere else to talk about the sinfulness of homosexuality.

 

[Edward]

RE post 9 - the relevant county ordinances:

The following acts are declared to be loud, disturbing and unnecessary noises in violation of this article; but this enumeration shall not be deemed to be exclusive:
Loudspeakers, amplifiers for advertising. The using, operating or permitting to be played, used or operated of any radio receiving set, musical instrument, phonograph, loudspeaker, sound amplifier or other machine or device for the producing or reproducing of sound which is cast upon the public streets for the purpose of commercial advertising or attracting the attention of the public to any building or structure. Announcements over loudspeakers can only be made by the announcer in person and without the aid of any mechanical device.

Yelling, shouting, etc. Yelling, shouting, hooting, whistling or singing on the public streets ... at any time or place, so as to annoy or disturb the quiet, comfort or repose of persons in any office, dwelling, hotel or other type of residence or of any persons in the vicinity.

Streets adjacent to schools, courts, churches, hospitals. The creation of any excessive noise on any street adjacent to any school, institution of learning, church or court while in use, or adjacent to any hospital, which interferes with the normal operation of that institution, or which disturbs patients in the hospitals, provided that conspicuous signs are displayed in those streets indicating a school, hospital or court street.

Except as otherwise provided, a person convicted of a violation of this Code shall be punished by a fine and sentence of imprisonment and/or probation not to exceed the maximum punishment as set out by Georgia law under O.C.G.A. § 15-10-60.

Cops should have given them a ride to jail and let a judge sort it out on Monday.

 

[Pergamum]

Thomas,

Reviewing videos of some of these street preachers, I see them pointing and directly yelling at particular peoples. Instead of explaining the Gospel, they are very vocally engaging people or even commenting to people as they walk past. They seem often to intentionally incite people to anger.

In this day and age, this seems threatening. Most sane people, if they walk down a street and someone points and yells specifically at them, are going to feel threatened. Most men will be tempted, to some degree, to punch this fella in the face. I think many street preachers test the patience of people and test the bounds of politeness. The police have some subjectivity in what constitutes disturbing the peace, and I would have liked to have seen the jerk in the video above arrested for disrespecting the cops. Just because jerkiness is done under the veneer of religiosity, doesn't make it any less annoying.

The model of street preaching I usually see in videos does not seem to be the model of Whitfield, who organized a meeting place and preached to assembled crowds who voluntarily came to hear him preach a full message expounding bible verses. This is a far cry from the street screechers who can't seem to go anywhere without a go-pro haranguing passers-by with repeated shouts of repent, repent, repent...without much deeper explanation.

Recently there was a street preacher punched by black students on the Mizzou campus for "preaching" - but if you watch the video clip, the person kept referring to black people this, and black people that....lots of speaking on race rather than the gospel, and the crowd got fed up with him. Much like Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton who are like bloated flies coming to hover over feces and to land on any bloated corpse of racial tragedy, this street preacher was no better...never letting an opportunity for exposure go to waste, always with a camera, and the juicier the video clips the better for his image ("isn't he a bold preacher, preaching in the face of this persecution..." when in fact, most of the anger displayed was stirred up by him).

 

[Pergamum]

https://www.facebook.com/OperationReapSouls/videos/927865983956254/

Someone showed me this video, thinking I would approve it.

Instead, I said it was boorish, probably illegal, and should not have been done.

A street preacher barges in and interrupts a church service of a church that is pro-gay. One justification was that Jesus barged into the Temple and over-turned the tables...so we must give these apostate people the gospel and tell them to repent, no matter where they are. My response was that we don't have that same authority as Jesus and we ought not to disrupt the closed door meetings of other denominations, even if they are apostate. They said I was unevangelistic, etc.

How would you answer as to why such practices are right or wrong? Some street preachers seem crazy and not teachable and unlikeable. If you accuse them of this..their answer is that you hate the Gospel. SIGH.....

Jesus was not interrupting a worship service. He was interrupting people from buying and selling things.

The street preacher should not be interrupting worship services. If he wants to tell people about the sinfulness of homosexuality, then he should do that outside. If the leadership of the church does not want him on church property, then he should get away from church property and go somewhere else to talk about the sinfulness of homosexuality.

Someone has to warn them! Isn't it better to risk a fine or break the law than to let sin go unrebuked? They are in God's house, and as God's servant, we must not be silent! You merely lack the requisite boldness. Plus, they were moved by the Spirit and who can refuse the proddings of the Spirit? [some street preacher responses to my critique]

 

[Hamalas]

Yeah, Pergy! If you weren't such a complacent and comfortable middle-class American you'd be out in a remote village somewhere spreading the gospel and risking the life and health of your family for the lost....oh wait....

 

[Pergamum]

Getting hate mail this morning from street preachers:

In regards to disrupting an assembly your argument is moot. Man's law never supersedes God's. Jesus, and the apostles went into the temple and rebuked the hypocrites. Should the magistrate get involved? Oh yes, they did when the apostles were causing riots in the city!
You have become my judge?

I suppose that Elijah, Jeremiah, and the other prophet's 'techniques' were wrong? I am sure you must realize that God has some really incredible things that he told people to do and warn the people with, right?

"I believe you are a LIAR, as well as a HYPOCRITE in your UNrighteous Judging of Street Preachers, AND you're DISOBEDIENCE of our Lord's Command to "GO into the world and PREACH to everyone." So I will continue to refer to you as a "Sis" instead of a Brother. "Examine yourself to see if you ARE "IN the Faith"...You evidently do NOT "keep His commands", as pointed out above, so "REPENT, or YOU will likewise PERISH." LUKEWARM "christians" make Jesus (and me) SICK. Get a REAL "LIFE" in Jesus, before it's too late. PLEASE!"

 

[Hamalas]

"Don't answer a fool according to his folly" might apply in this case. What pride.

 

[Edward]

our Lord's Command to "GO into the world and PREACH

Yes, you really should think about going out on a mission trip.

Get yourself a bullhorn, and go out to those upper middle class suburbs of east Marietta. Watch out for those feral BMWs and Benzes, however.

 

[Rhys]

I am reminded of Proverbs 25: If thine enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink: For thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head, and the Lord shall reward thee and Romans 12: Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Apostate churches may offend our sensibilities, but it's important to remember that false worship is not worship. These people are not doing any harm to God by play-acting, and He does not need the rest of us to defend Him. Instead of interrupting, this street preacher should be praying for the congregants, and/or writing a letter of reproof to the pastor, and/or finding some way to invite these people to a Biblical worship service.

 

[Pergamum]

I'm gettin' me a bull-horn for Cyber-Monday...and a PA system!

 

[Edward]

I'm gettin' me a bull-horn for Cyber-Monday.

Cyber Monday was a couple of days ago.

 

[Pergamum]

I suppose I can't be evangelistic now....

 

[Pergamum]

Double post by mistake

 

[Pergamum]

Here is another video of another disruption:

https://www.facebook.com/amirace.navarro.9/videos/431990187008881/

Defenses of this behavior include:

A positive comment on the tactics (quick entry and exit so as not to be arrested):

But like this guy - be in and out in a few minutes - when police come they will lock you up and it wont look good in court interrupting a religious service. But if you get in and out before cops have the chance to leave the station, go for it.

The ends seem to justify the means:

Harrassment huh...[name deleted]? I guess thats why his captive audience are receiving his tracts...

Faulty reasoning is also displayed, namely that, just because you are preaching the Gospel, you should not be arrested (forgetting that the persons are disrupting a lawful religious assembly and might be criminal trespassing:

Why should he be arrested for preaching the Gospel?

It seems the pagans don't have a right to worship in peace without being harassed. Yet, we all prize our ability to meet together in worship peaceably without molestation.


The example of Paul preaching in synagogues was given as an excuse for barging into churches. But, it was customary in the synagogues for visiting guests to be invited to speak and there was a format for hearing this. But, there is no biblical precedent for barging into where you don't belong.

And I answered as well:

"The account of Saul’s experience in Antioch of Pisidia (Acts 13:14ff) provides us with some details that help us see why Saul was invited to speak. Acts 13:15 tells us that after the Torah and Prophets were read, the rulers of the synagogue asked them to give a word of encouragement to the people. As we have seen, this practice would have been completely normal and expected in such a case. A visitor with a Jerusalem background — perhaps known to the local leaders and perhaps not — would have routinely received such a welcome."

http://www.netivyah.org/article/Paul-and-the-synagogue/


There seems to be a psychology that says, "Well...if it is done in the name of evangelism...it must be alright." I am sure this probably applies to missionary activities as well. There just doesn't seem to be a lot of discernment about methods as long as a lot of activity is generated.