Approaching Origen

[Solparvus]

Thank you for the responses.

A valid thought -

The reason is that I plan to do a serious survey of the early church to be able to teach about the early church and combat errors should they arise. And Origen's influence is too significant to disregard. I find that lamentably believers around me as well as myself are largely ignorant of the history of the church, and I would like to change that.

I have a friend who was taken in by Eastern Orthodoxy. In months before he was showing some appreciation for Origen. I don't know just how Origen may or may not have been connected with his downgrade, but others are reading early church works and are claiming a superior grasp on theology because of it. One thing that did make him stumble, was that they (from this perspective) had an anthropology that we don't. He also thinks we wrongly dropped off the significance of Mary in our theology. It's a powerful argument to some: How can we possibly hold a theology and practice different from those who were so near in time to the apostles (there are many, many assumptions in that argument)?

Our theology is all in conversation, and like it or not, we're speaking in terms of a conversation that's been going on long before we were born. I think you're doing an excellent thing. Keep at it.

 

[RamistThomist]

I have a friend who was taken in by Eastern Orthodoxy. In months before he was showing some appreciation for Origen. I don't know just how Origen may or may not have been connected with his downgrade, but others are reading early church works and are claiming a superior grasp on theology because of it. One thing that did make him stumble, was that they (from this perspective) had an anthropology that we don't. He also thinks we wrongly dropped off the significance of Mary in our theology. It's a powerful argument to some: How can we possibly hold a theology and practice different from those who were so near in time to the apostles (there are many, many assumptions in that argument)?

Our theology is all in conversation, and like it or not, we're speaking in terms of a conversation that's been going on long before we were born. I think you're doing an excellent thing. Keep at it.

That's ironic, since the 5th Ecumenical Council condemned Origen's theology as heretical.

 

[Solparvus]

That's ironic, since the 5th Ecumenical Council condemned Origen's theology as heretical.

He also thinks Protestants are Augustinian Aristotelians that follow Luther. Ironic as well, seeing as Luther abhorred Aristotle.

 

[RamistThomist]

He also thinks Protestants are Augustinian Aristotelians that follow Luther. Ironic as well, seeing as Luther abhorred Aristotle.

That's about 70% true. I am an Augustinian Aristotelian. A lot of these EO guys make arguments where Augustine caused Hitler.

 

[Notthemama1984]

Ryan Hurd is promoting crypto-papist views, including the four-fold sense of Scripture.
Origen is about the absolute last writer someone new to theology should be reading.

BTC TO THE MOON!

Oh wait. Not that kind of crypto.....

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

Origen once stated that not only was each and every human being elected to salvation, but even the devils themselves, namely, that after they had sustained penalties analogous to their sins for some time in hell, at last each and every one of them would pass into heaven.

Pieter van Mastricht, Theoretical-Practical Theology. Volume 3: The Works of God and the Fall of Man, trans. Todd M. Rester, eds Joel R. Beeke and Michael T. Spangler (1682; Grand Rapids MI: Reformation Heritage Books, 2021), Book 3.3.16.

 

[Phil D.]

Origen once stated that not only was each and every human being elected to salvation, but even the devils themselves, namely, that after they had sustained penalties analogous to their sins for some time in hell, at last each and every one of them would pass into heaven.

There is a resurrection of the dead, and there is punishment, but not everlasting. For when the body is punished the soul is gradually purified, and so is restored to its ancient rank. For all wicked men, and for demons, too, punishment has an end, and both wicked men and demons shall be restored to their former rank. (Origen, On First Principles, 2.10.8)​

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A certain deception was indeed practiced upon the Evil One, by concealing the Divine nature within the human; but for the latter, as himself a deceiver, it was only a just recompense that he should be deceived himself: the Great Adversary must himself at last find that what has been done is just and salutary, when he also shall experience the benefit of the Incarnation. He, as well as all humanity, will be purged. (Gregory of Nyssa, Catechetical Orations, 26)​

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As far as that goes, most every ECF said some shocking things about something or another. Take the great Augustine, for example.

But should you meet with a person not yet believing the gospel, how would you reply to him were he to say, I do not believe? For my part, I should not believe the gospel except as moved by the authority of the catholic Church. So when those on whose authority I have consented to believe in the gospel tell me not to believe in Manichaeus, how can I but consent? (Against the Epistle of Manichaeus, 6)​

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I don’t see what sort of help woman was created to provide man with, if one excludes procreation. If woman is not given to man for help in bearing children, for what help could she be? To till the earth together? If help were needed for that, man would have been a better help for man. The same goes for comfort in solitude. How much more pleasure is it for life and conversation when two friends live together than when a man and a woman cohabitate? (The Literal Meaning of Genesis, 9.5.9)​

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[arapahoepark]

Origen once stated that not only was each and every human being elected to salvation, but even the devils themselves, namely, that after they had sustained penalties analogous to their sins for some time in hell, at last each and every one of them would pass into heaven.

Pieter van Mastricht, Theoretical-Practical Theology. Volume 3: The Works of God and the Fall of Man, trans. Todd M. Rester, eds Joel R. Beeke and Michael T. Spangler (1682; Grand Rapids MI: Reformation Heritage Books, 2021), Book 3.3.16.

There is a resurrection of the dead, and there is punishment, but not everlasting. For when the body is punished the soul is gradually purified, and so is restored to its ancient rank. For all wicked men, and for demons, too, punishment has an end, and both wicked men and demons shall be restored to their former rank. (Origen, On First Principles, 2.10.8)​

​

A certain deception was indeed practiced upon the Evil One, by concealing the Divine nature within the human; but for the latter, as himself a deceiver, it was only a just recompense that he should be deceived himself: the Great Adversary must himself at last find that what has been done is just and salutary, when he also shall experience the benefit of the Incarnation. He, as well as all humanity, will be purged. (Gregory of Nyssa, Catechetical Orations, 26)​

​

As far as that goes, most every ECF said some shocking things about something or another. Take the great Augustine, for example.

But should you meet with a person not yet believing the gospel, how would you reply to him were he to say, I do not believe? For my part, I should not believe the gospel except as moved by the authority of the catholic Church. So when those on whose authority I have consented to believe in the gospel tell me not to believe in Manichaeus, how can I but consent? (Against the Epistle of Manichaeus, 6)​

​

I don’t see what sort of help woman was created to provide man with, if one excludes procreation. If woman is not given to man for help in bearing children, for what help could she be? To till the earth together? If help were needed for that, man would have been a better help for man. The same goes for comfort in solitude. How much more pleasure is it for life and conversation when two friends live together than when a man and a woman cohabitate? (The Literal Meaning of Genesis, 9.5.9)​

​

Rob Bell is Origen 2.0 or is Origen Rob Bell 1.0?