Biblical Calvinism vs. Popular Calvinism

[BaptistCanuk]

Tyler, you did a wonderful job in my opinion. I understand what you were saying and I agree. Maybe God is the cause of sin but not the source of it like you said. I can agree with that. Somewhere in the whole equation, God has to be there. Nothing takes Him by surprise.

 

[P.F.]

We believe God is in total control of every atom and event in his universe. He has decreed every action, natural and moral, including the "free" actions of men. Including sins. He's decreed them, in such a way so that they are done "freely." This is the language of our confessions.

Indeed we do.
That is a common point of our agreement.
If that is the limit of the discussion, then we are in agreement.
However, what if someone will present the obvious questions:
How can they be both "free" and under the total control of God?
Must we reject further explanation as curious pryings into the mysteries of God?
May we provide any further explanation to those who challenge the explanation above as self-contradictory?
If so, is VC wrong to do so?

 

[Founded on the Rock]

But isn't that exactly what happens when non-believers read scripture? It isn't that scripture itself is confusing or contrary, but the Spirit actively confuses the minds of non-believers. God blinds men to the truth, so hearing the words of the Gospel, they do not understand them. Or if they do understand the words, they do not believe it is true. "


My understanding could be off-base, and I am certainly not trying to give an authoritative answer. I would like to ask though is God "actively" involved in confounding the hearts of men or is his creating them in their sin "active". It seems to me that God does not need to be actively hardening the hearts of men because they are already hardened.

Just my . Though every time I throw an opinion out there, I see someone much more intelligent and capable than myself come along and corrrect me Just something I was thinking about.

 

[A2JC4life]

in my opinion, Cheung (as quoted above - "consistent" Calvinism) is *technically* correct, but *essentially* wrong - a "law without Spirit" kind of thing.

Because everything that happens has been decreed by God from the beginning, including our choices, then technically our decisions are controlled by God. But his description carries an implication of puppetry that the Bible does not ever suggest - like God somehow forces us to do things that are against our wishes. I think that Mr. Cheung wants to over-simplify something that is very complex and, frankly, probably just over our finite heads.

It is true that I want to somehow "balance" God's sovereignty with man's free agency (not free will!). That's because the BIBLE teaches sort of a "two planes" approach to the perception of life. Consider the death of Saul. Did Saul kill himself (or the young man who claimed to have finished him off - I'm not clear on whether he actually had to finish him, or just wanted bragging rights), or did God? (1 Sam. 31:4; 2 Sam. 1:8-10,16; 1 Chr. 10:13-14)

I still believe that God is utterly in control; I just believe that, rather than *contradicting* my will, He *changes* it.