Body=sin, Soul=sin, Spirit=sinless?

[tdowns]

"Unfortunately the spirit body for all eternity is not an exclusive position of HP. I would hazard to guess a lot of Christians buy into it. It is part of the gnosticism that is a part of today's broadly Evangelical church like trichotomy."

This quote from another thread (can't remember who posted it) reminded me of a conversation I recently had with a friend of mine. He is close to Reformed in his thinking, appreciates the history of the Reformed Tradition, but struggles with Calvinism, TULIP, etc. Right now he is attending a Calvary Chapel.

So, we were discussing things, and to make a long story short, one of his arguments, was that he felt we were made of three parts, Body, Soul, and Spirit, and he felt, the Spirit, was the part that all of humanity had, that was not tainted with sin, and it was what "responded" to God, when drawn. So that all men CAN respond to God's call. It was contradictory at times, like all FREE WILL arguments.

Unfortunately, our conversation was cut short, and I did give some arguments against his thinking, but, it sure sounds like the poster above is right on, that there is a movement in the Calvary Chapel circles, etc. to push this "tri" thinking. But I'd never heard of the "tri" in the light, that, the Spirit was without sin?

Anybody know of this, "Spirit is not tainted by sin" theology? As mentioned in other thread, sounds gnostic

 

[tdowns]

Whoops....

Missed the second S in sin....sorry.

 

[VictorBravo]

Fixed the title.

I've heard of this sort of "theology", but mostly from New Age gurus. It really is a gnostic variation that seeks to allow for self-help redemption.

 

[tdowns]

Thanks....

for the fix...

Yeah, I was kind of thrown back by it, this guy is a strong thinker, and been around a while, in many ways a solid Christian, and to say, we had a sinless spirit in our sinful body and soul...back to the gnostics we go! Next time we correspond, I'm going to ask him who he is reading.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

Anybody know of this, "Spirit is not tainted by sin" theology? As mentioned in other thread, sounds gnostic

I have never heard this before. I attended a Horizon Fellowship for a very short time with a friend and it doesn't sound like what I heard. BTW, Horizon Fellowships are the next best thing to Calvary Chapel's. In fact their teaching said outside of Christ the Spirit was now dead in sin because of the fall. It needed to be made alive. Man's spirit was dead in sin and separated from God because of the fall. In their teaching the spirit was where we needed to be made alive so we could commune with God.

If I am not mistaken I do think that when the spirit is made alive they believe it is where we commune with God and sin doesn't attack the soul from this part of our being like it does from the flesh. But it has been a while.

 

[RamistThomist]

P1 the spirit is part of your 'person,'
P2 and if the spirit is sinless then it doesn't need to be redeemed,
P3 and if it doesn't need to be redeemed, then Christ didn't die for the spirit,
-------------------------------------------------
C1: Christ really didn't die for your friend (assuming he is a peson).

 

[RamistThomist]

this sounds like an interesting implication of tri-chotomy

 

[VictorBravo]

this sounds like an interesting implication of tri-chotomy

Heh, only two thirds of each of us have to be redeemed. Sounds like a good discount. We are 33% less sinful than we thought!

(I know there's a Bible verse somewhere on this. . . .)

 

[tdowns]

Yeah,

I figure this is coming out of the "Cult of the Free Will" movement, when you reject the biblical truth of God's sovereignty, you have to come up with stuff to try to work it out. If everyone has this communion, without the corruption of sin, then everyone, at least has the opportunity to accept God's "spirit" offer, and the ball can fall into the hands of ALL MIGHTY MAN, right where the "Cult of the Free Will" wants it.

At least that's my initial reaction to it. Any other thoughts on how this affects one's thinking...I love what's been posted so far, Thanks guys.

 

[wsw201]

That poster was me!!

I have heard another version of this. Not that the spirit is inherently sinless but it is that the spirit is what is saved. The physical body and the soul or psyche are still corrupt.

Once a person becomes a Christian it is the spirit that is able to communicate with the Holy Spirit (that small voice that you hear!) and it is the spirit that lives on in eternity.

 

[Davidius]

That poster was me!!

I have heard another version of this. Not that the spirit is inherently sinless but it is that the spirit is what is saved. The physical body and the soul or psyche are still corrupt.

Once a person becomes a Christian it is the spirit that is able to communicate with the Holy Spirit (that small voice that you hear!) and it is the spirit that lives on in eternity.

This is what I was taught as a charismatic and it reeks of Plato. Just substitute "spirit" for "reason/mind."

 

[KMK]

That poster was me!!

I have heard another version of this. Not that the spirit is inherently sinless but it is that the spirit is what is saved. The physical body and the soul or psyche are still corrupt.

Once a person becomes a Christian it is the spirit that is able to communicate with the Holy Spirit (that small voice that you hear!) and it is the spirit that lives on in eternity.

This is what I was taught as a charismatic and it reeks of Plato. Just substitute "spirit" for "reason/mind."

What denom or church were you in where this was taught?

 

[Davidius]

That poster was me!!

I have heard another version of this. Not that the spirit is inherently sinless but it is that the spirit is what is saved. The physical body and the soul or psyche are still corrupt.

Once a person becomes a Christian it is the spirit that is able to communicate with the Holy Spirit (that small voice that you hear!) and it is the spirit that lives on in eternity.

This is what I was taught as a charismatic and it reeks of Plato. Just substitute "spirit" for "reason/mind."

What denom or church were you in where this was taught?

Before I came to UNC I and some friends from my youth group were heavily influenced by Rick Joyner and his group MorningStar Ministries. During my first two years here I became a part of what is now called Every Nation Campus Ministries (formerly Victory Campus Ministries and something else before that), which is run by a group called Every Nation (formerly "Morningstar" but not Rick Joyner's, and "Maranatha" before that).

 

[larryjf]

I would say that there are not 3 parts to a human but 2...Body and soul, also called body and spirit. There are only 2 distinctions...immaterial and material. If there were a third, what would it be?

[bible]James 2:26[/bible]

[bible]2 Corinthians 7: 1[/bible]

(also note that the 2 Corinthians passage tells us that the "spirit" is to be cleansed...so it can't be without sin to begin with)

Some passages are used to argue for trichotomy, such as...

[bible]Heb 4:12[/bible]

But this verse seems to be a euphemism for our immaterial being in toto. In other words, the Bible penetrates to the very core of our being.
Biblical terms like "soul," "spirit," "heart," etc. are just different ways of describing the immaterial part of our person.

 

[tdowns]

Tri?

Is there anything theologically wrong with the Tri view, or just some of the errors that seem to come out of it?

 

[turmeric]

This view of trichotomy was popularized by Watchman Nee in the mid-20th Century and was very popular among Charismatics and AG churches. It's sort of hyper-higher life. They taught that the spirit is what is saved, and the spirit must overcome the body and soul. Sort of the "carnal/spiritual Christian" view in hyper-drive.

 

[Simply_Nikki]

this sounds like an interesting implication of tri-chotomy

Heh, only two thirds of each of us have to be redeemed. Sounds like a good discount. We are 33% less sinful than we thought!

(I know there's a Bible verse somewhere on this. . . .)

Price check on spirit?

 

[Simply_Nikki]

That poster was me!!

I have heard another version of this. Not that the spirit is inherently sinless but it is that the spirit is what is saved. The physical body and the soul or psyche are still corrupt.

Once a person becomes a Christian it is the spirit that is able to communicate with the Holy Spirit (that small voice that you hear!) and it is the spirit that lives on in eternity.

Hmm..how do people who hold this view...mesh it together with our ressurection? or Jesus' ressurrection for that matter. Do they not believe in a physical bodily ressurection?

 

[D. Paul]

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
God made the body. Man became a living soul. Why must there be more read into it?

 

[panta dokimazete]

How about the elect? aren't they 3 parts?

body, soul and the Holy Spirit?

 

[wsw201]

That poster was me!!

I have heard another version of this. Not that the spirit is inherently sinless but it is that the spirit is what is saved. The physical body and the soul or psyche are still corrupt.

Once a person becomes a Christian it is the spirit that is able to communicate with the Holy Spirit (that small voice that you hear!) and it is the spirit that lives on in eternity.

Hmm..how do people who hold this view...mesh it together with our ressurection? or Jesus' ressurrection for that matter. Do they not believe in a physical bodily ressurection?

No they don't. What will be resurrected, as was with Jesus, is a spirit body. Like Jesus, we will be able to walk through doors and such.

 

[Davidius]

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
God made the body. Man became a living soul. Why must there be more read into it?

They read into this verse that the breath of life is "spirit" and becoming a living soul is the third part, "soul."