Mind, Body, Spirit

[RobertPGH1981]

Hello All,

I was recently in one of my biblical counseling classes at RPTS and the topic of the relationship between Body, Mind and Spirit came up. Does anybody know of a source that addresses this relationship in counseling and how it relates to biblical history in both the OT and NT views. Thinking in terms of the relationship between the body/soul during this life and in death. For example, when people died in the OT what was believes in regards to the relationship between body/soul after death.

Think of verses like Luke 16:19-31; Matthew 27: 51-53; and the new heavens and new earth. Also consider those who are are strong believers but are succumbed to various ailments such as alzheimer's disease. With these ailments one may notice a believer who acts out of character due to their illness. These are different things we discussed and it became apparent that nobody had a clear answer, or one that covered the theme discussed above.

God bless,

Rob

 

[RamistThomist]

It's an echo of the mind-body problem. Search for some JP Moreland talks on the soul. If you can't find any, I'll email you some. In the meanwhile, these are great:
https://www.amazon.com/Soul-How-Kno...&qid=1508095309&sr=8-1&keywords=moreland+soul

https://www.amazon.com/Love-Your-Go...=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1508095330&sr=1-2

https://www.amazon.com/Kingdom-Tria...=sr_1_8?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1508095330&sr=1-8

https://www.amazon.com/Lost-Virtue-...r_1_12?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1508095330&sr=1-12

https://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Death...r_1_23?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1508095417&sr=1-23

 

[RobertPGH1981]

Thank you for the quick reply and the recommendations. I was able to find a few videos on youtube among the resources you provided by JP Moreland. If you have any other suggestions please send them my way.

 

[RamistThomist]

Thank you for the quick reply and the recommendations. I was able to find a few videos on youtube among the resources you provided by JP Moreland. If you have any other suggestions please send them my way.

One of the youtube videos he did as a Biola forum is very advanced. I'll try to find some accessible ones. But Moreland has done a lot of work in spiritual warfare and he brings that to bear on his mind-body accounts.

 

[RamistThomist]

this is good.
https://cct.biola.edu/what-is-the-soul-and-is-it-real/

 

[RobertPGH1981]

One of the youtube videos he did as a Biola forum is very advanced.

Would you be able to send me the video if its scientifically advanced? I have a friend who studies Neurology who might be interested in the topic. Thank you for sending hte latest.

 

[RamistThomist]

 

[jwright82]

You know I'm not sure what value the mind and body problem would have on counseling. As long as one views the person as a holistic entity. You can make dinstinctions within the entity without an ontological seperation. So practically there is no difference.

 

[RobertPGH1981]

In counseling an individual may have theological questions regarding the following scenarios described below. I never personally encountered this but the question was asked by a student in one of my seminary classes. It interested me and I am now curious to know the biblical response. I do believe that once a believer is saved they're always saved and could see that the two situations cause us a dilemma. What would our forefathers say in this situation?

1. A known christian lives out their entire life as a as a well respected believer in the church and has shown the fruit of the spirit his entire life. He later succumbs to alzheimer's and acts out of character such as swearing, fits of rage and aloofness (walking around naked). What is the biblical response to their loved ones, who are also believers, as they are struggling with the situation?

2. A known christian like the man described above suffers from severe head trauma in a car accident. The man is in a comma and when he comes out of the comma he doesn't remember anything including being a Christian. What is the biblical response to the family?

 

[Stephen L Smith]

You might be interested in this 1974 lecture on 'Body, Mind and Spirit' given by Dr Martyn Lloyd-Jones to te UK Christian Medical Fellowship
Part A https://www.mljtrust.org/sermons/body-mind-and-spirit-part-a/
Part B https://www.mljtrust.org/sermons/body-mind-and-spirit-part-b/

 

[RobertPGH1981]

Thanks for sending over. He is one of my favorites and I didn't know how these sermons.

 

[Parmenas]

I am far from informed enough to have an opinion on this idea, but are not there some who decry the tripartition of man into "body, mind, and spirit" as unbiblical?

 

[RobertPGH1981]

This topic is very confusing to me as well, so I won't say much. I originally thought the Mind,Body & Soul were one, but the response to me on this was that in the present age the spirit separates from the body after death (in theory). Those who passed are all awaiting the final judgment and the resurrection of the dead. I haven't done much study on death and revelation so its a very foreign topic to me.

 

[Ben Zartman]

In counseling an individual may have theological questions regarding the following scenarios described below. I never personally encountered this but the question was asked by a student in one of my seminary classes. It interested me and I am now curious to know the biblical response. I do believe that once a believer is saved they're always saved and could see that the two situations cause us a dilemma. What would our forefathers say in this situation?

1. A known christian lives out their entire life as a as a well respected believer in the church and has shown the fruit of the spirit his entire life. He later succumbs to alzheimer's and acts out of character such as swearing, fits of rage and aloofness (walking around naked). What is the biblical response to their loved ones, who are also believers, as they are struggling with the situation?

2. A known christian like the man described above suffers from severe head trauma in a car accident. The man is in a comma and when he comes out of the comma he doesn't remember anything including being a Christian. What is the biblical response to the family?

Question one of the Heidelberg Catechism answers this nicely, I think. Also Paul's list of things that will not separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus includes these among it.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Something to keep in mind related to trichotomous views (see attached).

 

[RobertPGH1981]

Thank you for sending Ask Mr. Religion.

I actually started to think this may start to border gnosticism and the article explains this well. I haven't read it in its entirety but plan on doing this soon.

 

[jwright82]

In counseling an individual may have theological questions regarding the following scenarios described below. I never personally encountered this but the question was asked by a student in one of my seminary classes. It interested me and I am now curious to know the biblical response. I do believe that once a believer is saved they're always saved and could see that the two situations cause us a dilemma. What would our forefathers say in this situation?

1. A known christian lives out their entire life as a as a well respected believer in the church and has shown the fruit of the spirit his entire life. He later succumbs to alzheimer's and acts out of character such as swearing, fits of rage and aloofness (walking around naked). What is the biblical response to their loved ones, who are also believers, as they are struggling with the situation?

2. A known christian like the man described above suffers from severe head trauma in a car accident. The man is in a comma and when he comes out of the comma he doesn't remember anything including being a Christian. What is the biblical response to the family?

What do those, tragic to say the least, have to do with the ones view on the mind and body problem? Nothing, as far as I can see, to help one in counseling anyone.

 

[RobertPGH1981]

Biblical counselors do accept some medical reasons for negative behaviors rather than the individuals choice. It is as if the illness caused the person to act negatively. In the cases mentioned above do those individuals persevere? Is there an exegesis on the relationship? Is this question answerable? What do you tell the relatives when they come to you for counsel?