Burden for a Pastor Friend

[ArminianOnceWas]

First, let me say (not that it really matters) that the "friend" I am describing is not myself. I was so blessed to finish seminary without debt because of a grandmother that wanted a grandson to go into ministry, and now I have been able to go back to seminary without debt because of inheritance.

However, I have a friend, within my Wesleyan denomination who like me is convinced of Reformed theology but unlike me doesn't seem intent to leave our current body for a Reformed ecclesiastical connection as I will in '18.

When I pressed this minister on why he wouldn't consider this, especially given that I feel like a child who cannot wait for Christmas when it comes to my transition next year, his response was that he arrived at seminary with about $5K of undergrad debt and ended up with $60K debt while in seminary, of which about $40K remains.

Within our current body, ordained ministers are guaranteed a minimum salary and a job and this minister believes that he cannot ask his wife and now children who are transitioning into adolescence to potentially go back to seminary (which wasn't the brightest time of their life) which would likely result in more debt, and/or leave the denominational security blanket in order to possibly start near the bottom (as in church size = salary due to his newcomer status). He still has a decade or so before this debt is paid off.

I certainly realize that truth in doctrine and integrity of preaching are of overwhelming importance. I also realize financial responsibility is great significance as well as a man's duty to family. It seems that my friend is between a rock and hard place. The more he opened up, the more I could tell that his heart really wants to transition but he is burying the idea due to financial pragmatism.

My feelings go out to this gentleman, and I wonder what other ways there are for him to look at his situation or ideas of how I may be a blessing to him. I am humbly looking for a steady hand of wisdom in what I am finding to be a near burden of my heart.

 

[arapahoepark]

Why does he need to go back to seminary if he has all of his tools at his disposal that got him to the Doctrines of Grace?

 

[ArminianOnceWas]

Why does he need to go back to seminary if he has all of his tools at his disposal that got him to the Doctrines of Grace?

That's a good question. I suppose because his education is from a strongly Arminian and very liberal seminary, and for his transition he doesn't think his education will be accepted by presbyteries.

 

[arapahoepark]

That's a good question. I suppose because his education is from a strongly Arminian and very liberal seminary, and for his transition he doesn't think his education will be accepted by presbyteries.

It would probably be viewed with some suspicion but, if he passes the exams I am not sure why his seminary would be a hindrance. Seems like a rather good testimony.
Undoubtedly, others will weigh in who have been a part of these and I can't imagine they would recommend redoing an expensive seminary education.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Yeah... I saw someone come into the PCA having obtained their MDiv from Princeton. I got my MDiv from Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, and it wasn't a hindrance to finding a church position. Really, what matters is if he can pass the ordination exams. So he may need to engage in some personal/independent study to beef up on where he is lacking. When he shares his "story" he can explain his theological transition.

In terms of finding a position... if he's going from his Wesleyan tradition to hardcore Puritanical Micro-Pism, he may have a hard time finding a church that will look at him, but if he's going into "mainstream PCA," many of these churches seem to be (essentially) Calvinistic evangelicals, and I'd wager that his background won't be an immediate disqualifier.

 

[Edward]

A middle ground might be to take a few courses from a reformed seminary - Systematic Theology comes to mind, maybe something on church government and the sacraments; not cheap, but a lot cheaper than doing seminary over.

 

[ArminianOnceWas]

A middle ground might be to take a few courses from a reformed seminary - Systematic Theology comes to mind, maybe something on church government and the sacraments; not cheap, but a lot cheaper than doing seminary over.

Thank you. I think some contact (moderator?) in some presbytery somewhere suggested to him he completes a Th.M or D.Min from Westminster or somewhere and that would help him.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Thank you. I think some contact (moderator?) in some presbytery somewhere suggested to him he completes a Th.M or D.Min from Westminster or somewhere and that would help him.

But understand that by “help him” it primarily refers to marketability with a church search committee. This is unquestionably the most significant aspect. Who cares what a Presbytery thinks if he can’t get a church to look at him? Remember, for people seeking to transfer into the PCA, the presbyteries won’t get involved until a call has been issued by a church. So he needs to work on his knowledge base to pass the exams, but his primary concern needs to be getting a call from the church.

No Presbytery is going to judge him on where he got his degree. They will judge him on how he does on his exams.

 

[ArminianOnceWas]

No Presbytery is going to judge him on where he got his degree. They will judge him on how he does on his exams.

I am ignorant so not contesting, but rather asking for more commentary on your statement as it seems difficult to give a blanket statement for every presbytery. Of course, I do love the hopeful sound of your suggestion.

I met with multiple presbyteries in preparation for my transition and I found that some presbyteries will possibly/likely grill you harder depending on where you went to school. If you went to Yale Divinity you'll be grilled hard over liberalism, if you went to Assemblies of God Seminary you'll be grilled on charismatic theology etc.

One moderator told me that his specific presbytery would not accept any minister who didn't believe in literal 7, 24 hour day creation, while another presbytery didn't care about that but said if you are a supporter of N.T. Wright then you likely would not be accepted there, meanwhile, another minister in a separate presbytery said they would probably be happy to receive a minister who supported Wright's views etc

At the end of the day, it seems each presbytery (all these were PCA examples) has their own criteria. I want to believe what you say but gosh, I'm resistant.