Canadian Users: Do you think we are persecuted?

[tellville]

So fellow Canadians? Do you think Canada is becoming increasingly intolerant of Christians? Do you think it is on the brink of persecution? Do you think our kids will suffer harshly for being Christians? Or do you think the pendulum will swing back to tolerance?

Do you guys have any other theories as to what will happen to the religious landscape in Canada?

 

[kvanlaan]

Though I've lived abroad for many years, I do see the symptoms of persecution to come, the stage is being set. The legitimization of homosexuality and the growing indifference to pedophilia in the courts is significant. The lusts of the flesh are galloping away with people. The bishop of Calgary being referred to the Human Rights Commission for his stand on abortion - it all seems to point in the same direction.

As for actual persecution, I don't yet see it. Here in present-day China, I see real persecution (house churches being knocked down when they are found out, leaving people homeless.) And even that is, I think, is merely the beginnings of real persecution (they've had plenty of the real thing over the last few decades and the past few hundred years.) When we see Christians beheaded in Nathan Philips square to the cheers of the crowd, then there is real persecution. In any case, we should count it all joy...



Brother, I do share your concern. Things are not going well there and they don't seem to be getting better.

 

[No Longer A Libertine]

Though I've lived abroad for many years, I do see the symptoms of persecution to come, the stage is being set. The legitimization of homosexuality and the growing indifference to pedophilia in the courts is significant. The lusts of the flesh are galloping away with people. The bishop of Calgary being referred to the Human Rights Commission for his stand on abortion - it all seems to point in the same direction.

As for actual persecution, I don't yet see it. Here in present-day China, I see real persecution (house churches being knocked down when they are found out, leaving people homeless.) And even that is, I think, is merely the beginnings of real persecution (they've had plenty of the real thing over the last few decades and the past few hundred years.) When we see Christians beheaded in Nathan Philips square to the cheers of the crowd, then there is real persecution. In any case, we should count it all joy...



Brother, I do share your concern. Things are not going well there and they don't seem to be getting better.

A bishop was refered to the Human Rights Commision for opposing abortion?

 

[kvanlaan]

Fred Henry is the bishop of Calgary and as I remember it, he addressed the issue in a letter to parishoners.

Oops, slight error here. I checked on the facts just now and found that it was his defence of traditional marriage in a letter to parishoners that got him in trouble with the HRC. This was the actual quote form the letter:

Bishop Henry, who recently courageously stood up to threats by Revenue Canada agents over his pre-election comments about the Prime Minister's moral incoherence on abortion and same-sex unions, writes: "Since homosexuality, adultery, prostitution and p0rnography undermine the foundations of the family, the basis of society, then the State must use its coercive power to proscribe or curtail them in the interests of the common good."

The pastoral letter begins by emphasizing that the fight to preserve marriage in Canada is far from over. The bishop points out that Canada's Supreme Court justices did not say that Parliament "must redefine marriage to include same-sex couples." However, Bishop Henry also castigates the Court justices and all others who use the Constitution's Charter of Rights and Freedoms as their authority to justify the imposition of radical social changes on the nation.

Rather than shy away from the issue of homosexuality,(as have most other Christian leaders in the country), which is central to the debate, Bishop Henry confronts it without fear.

He teaches, with the authority of a Catholic shepherd, "Simply stated, a same sex union is not marriage. The idea that homosexuals can create same sex 'marriage' through their individual choice is false. All the packaging in the world doesn't alter substance".

His stance on abortion was at odds with Amnesty International, who was at the time considering entering into the abortion-advocacy arena on the basis of abortion as a basic "human right".

Sorry for the confusion, but it is pretty much six of one and a half dozen of the other.

The full letter can be found here:

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/jan/050113a.html

It's quite a kettle of fish...

 

[tellville]

Kevin, I think you make some good points. I guess I am more worried about my children (I don't have any yet, but I am only recently married) being persecuted then myself. I find that more liberal views find their way into Quebec first, then into English speaking Canada. Right now the toleration of religion in Quebec (I use to live there and plan on moving back in September) is something of a "bitter toleration". Christians and other religious people are tolerated, but with the air of "why would anyone be so stupid and believe something so obviously false?! And we let these people try to actually infuse their ridiculous ideology into others. What is the world coming to?"

Right now a Christian convert from Islam, Zachariah Anani, is being accused of hate crimes for giving a presentation at a Baptist church about how Islam is violent (he use to be a militant Muslim). The story can be listened to here:

http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/media/200701/20070116thecurrent_sec1.ram

(for American viewers, the CBC is our main TV station)

Go here for summaries on the issue:
http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/2007/200701/20070116.html

http://www.worldmag.com/articles/12657

The United States seems to be the last haven in the West for conservative Christians!

 

[Kevin]

The real probelms we have here are the framework for persecution has been set up (and tested) but not widespread persecution, yet.

The HRC system is one tool that has been used, however I see an other one being set up now. The HRC has beenused to combate "hate crimes' and to our shame we did not stand up against the system when it was first used because we didn't want to be associated with "those people". So we did nothing when Ross, Keegstra, and others we charged. Now it is being turned on evangelicals and the precedent has already been set.

What I am worried about now is the "child abuse" issue. Churches are being pressured to run RCMP background checks on elders, deacons, SS teachers, nursery workers, etc to "prevent child abuse". Many churches (inclding my own) will no longer allow you to serve if you do not submit to a police check. The pressure comes from some insurence companies, however the result is the same.

I honestly expect that we will soon see an attempt made to charge someone or some organisation with "child abuse" for being "homophobic". Once this happens we will see churches who have submitted to the background checks in a real dilemma.

We need to pray that we will have the wisdom to recognise a real threat when it comes and the courage to oppose it.

 

[BJClark]

tellville;

So fellow Canadians? Do you think Canada is becoming increasingly intolerant of Christians? Do you think it is on the brink of persecution? Do you think our kids will suffer harshly for being Christians? Or do you think the pendulum will swing back to tolerance?

Do you guys have any other theories as to what will happen to the religious landscape in Canada?

Though I am not Canadian, I believe Christianity in all parts of the World is under persecution. Maybe not to the extent as other countries, but under persecution none the less, as it has been for generations.

Will it be worse for our Children? probably so, as the hearts of men wax colder and colder, and more and more sins are no longer called sin.

I do not believe the pendulum will swing back to tolerance of Christianity, given the teachings and acceptance of many so called churches that there are many ways to God, and Christ is not the 'ONLY WAY'.

I do, however, find it interesting that so many people around the world are more accepting of Islam, than they are of Christianity...I'd say because the Holy Spirit convicts the heart of sin, and to admit they are sinners would mean they need to repent. But to believe in allah, means to kill those who call us sinners...so lets kill off those who call us sinners, all those who when we are near them shine the light of Christ into our lives so that we can continue to deny the wretchedness of our sin.

 

[kvanlaan]

Kevin, that is troubling. I had no idea. One thing that did strike me as odd was reading something in the last Banner (the CRC denominational magazine) about each church being required (by Synod) to have a committee to investigate and guard against child abuse (I believe, maybe it was violence against women, but it is something in that vein). In a government day care, perhaps. But in a church?? What has taken ahold of our churches that such an organ is required?

They used to have the same sort of committees here but it had to do with ALL sorts of infractions and goings on, both with regards to actions of mouths and hands. Then the committee members attended weekly meetings with the police to report on all such issues. You get the picture.

I guess that puts me pretty much in line with Mark's second post in this thread. I am married to an American and we may, some day, emigrate. That would probably hinge on homeschooling laws or the like. I don't see it happening yet, but like you said, it seems to be just a matter of time. Of course, I don't know that you could find a Bible-believing Christian who could say that the state of Christianity in Canada is great and everything is hunky-dory anyway.

One thing sticks in my mind here, Mark. Alberta is just about the last place fit to live in Canada. And you're going to Quebec!?!? Surely you are harkening to His call in doing so, for I don't know of anything else that could possess a man to do such a thing!

 

[tellville]

Kevin,

Ironically, it was in Quebec that I had my true conversion experience! It is an interesting story involving an American missionary planning to go to West Africa, Harry Potter, the Canadian Bible Society, and Left Behind.

Yes, I want to go back to Quebec to help my denomination plant some churches there. I plan on staying for a couple of years, to improve my French, then hopefully come back to Alberta to go to Seminary, and then to go back to Quebec and continue being a witness. Now this "plan" could completely change, but my heart has a passion for two people, Les Quebecois and the Mormons. Right now, the Quebec path has been opened to me, and so I am jumping on it. Please keep me in your prayers!

And you're right about Alberta. However, in my Soc of Religion class, according to statistics, the Maritimes are the most Christian of any area of Canada (Lower Mainland BC and Quebec are the least). Alberta is up there, but after the Maritimes. I don't actually know many people from the Maritimes (and the ones I do know are in the military which is not exactly conducive to Christian living!), so I don't know how accurate that is.

 

[BJClark]

Kevin;

In a government day care, perhaps. But in a church?? What has taken ahold of our churches that such an organ is required?

Why not our churches? Sad truth is, many pastors, and church members working with children have been known to molest the very children they are teaching.

Granted there are other things churches can do to help protect their children, like making sure there are windows in all rooms and have split doors so that anyone could walk past a room and see whats going on. Even having something in place like if your working with the kids and one of them has to go to thet restroom, an adult and two or more kids go...that way it's less likely for anything to happen at least on church grounds.

Do we believe man is totally depraved? If so, then we must believe a person can 'claim' to be a Christian working to build trust with pastors, parents and familes...looking for the open door to molest a child.

Something that should be considered is, if a church has certain things in place like background checks, if a person is a child molestor, they are less likely to join that church, as they won't have the easy access to kids.

 

[kvanlaan]

Mark, you are truly heading into the mission field.

Bobbi, with regards to the abuse committees, the problem I have with it is that it is not an ecclesiastical setup, it appears to be laid out along the lines of typical PC rubbish that infects most aspects of Canadian society. While I don't deny that there are problems in every denomination, inviting secular thinking into the church body in any form is a mistake, in my opinion. There are many ways to ensure a child's safety without taking this step, and most are just common sense, as you outlined below. It is the "towing the social line" that concerns me - church and state being blended in a way that was never meant to be...

 

[Semper Fidelis]

By they way, I was born in Goose Bay Labrador, Newfoundland, Canada.

I'm not a Canadian but I was born there so I feel I am qualified to answer this question.

I haven't noticed any difference in Canada. I don't really think about Canada in fact.

I haven't been there since 1969, when I was about 1 year old, but in our post-modern culture any opinion needs to be heard no matter how uninformed.

So there you have it, eh?

 

[Kevin]

By they way, I was born in Goose Bay Labrador, Newfoundland, Canada.

I'm not a Canadian but I was born there so I feel I am qualified to answer this question.

I haven't noticed any difference in Canada. I don't really think about Canada in fact.

I haven't been there since 1969, when I was about 1 year old, but in our post-modern culture any opinion needs to be heard no matter how uninformed.

So there you have it, eh?

Born on a USAF base?

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Born on a USAF base?

Yes. Although I only lived there a very short time, I speak the language fluently.

 

[Kevin]

Yes the maritimes does have a lot of Christians. We refer to it as the "Bible belt of Canada". It is also a a more conservative area in general.

 

[kvanlaan]

I always knew there was something different about Rich... a certain unidentifiable "quality" - and now we know. And from the Granite Planet no less!

 

[Poimen]

Yes the maritimes does have a lot of Christians. We refer to it as the "Bible belt of Canada". It is also a a more conservative area in general.

? Then why do you always vote for the NDP and the Liberal party?