Church

[Man of God]

Does anyone else remember when we served out of faithfulness rather than for a paycheck?

 

[Jerusalem Blade]

You might have it backwards, Brian – it could be can anyone remember when we served for a paycheck, rather than out of faithfulness?

 

[philomath]

Hi Brian. Seeing as you posted your question in the Church History forum, I'll try to respond with that in mind. Throughout each era of History in Christ's Church there have been both those who have served for worldly gain and those who serve out of love of God, His Gospel, and His people. I could supply different examples, but I can't tell if that's exactly what you're after.

Your statement is a bit broad and it reminds me of something like "does anyone else remember when people weren't glued to their devices and spending hours scrolling through facebook reels?" The reality is, though there may be people who fit in this category, there are also people who don't.

Also, one thing we must consider on this topic is that though we should serve out of faithfulness and not just for a paycheck, Gospel Ministers/Elders specifically are entitled to material provision (ie a paycheck). This is an obligation of the church towards a minister, though a minister could of course surrender this right for different reasons (such as a particularly destitute congregation) and make his living wages "tent making" so to speak.

1 Timothy 5:17-18
17 Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching. 18 For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer deserves his wages.”

What specifically has you thinking on this topic? Is it a situation going on in your personal life / a local church, or just a general thought that it seems like folks don't have their priorities straight?

 

[Jack K]

If you're thinking of paid Sunday school administrators, musicians, building supervisors, etc., then I do remember with fondness the days when such paid positions were rare.

 

[Edward]

If you're thinking of paid Sunday school administrators, musicians, building supervisors, etc., then I do remember with fondness the days when such paid positions were rare.

I remember well the mid 20th Century when the church I was a member of had a paid Director of Christian Education (female) , a paid organist/choir director (female), and a paid Sexton (Black). So all three categories covered. It also a large contingent of stay-at-home moms who covered a lot of the ground that now requires paid staffing.

 

[Ryan&Amber2013]

Here's another angle too: there are some elders and deacons and even volunteers out there, that work full-time secular jobs, and then pour their lives into ministry, with zero compensation. My shepherding elder would do anything for anybody, he's always somewhere ministering to somebody or doing things for the church. His ministry involvement is literally like a part-time job. But because he's not on payroll, nobody thinks about compensating him.

People that work full-time secular jobs and then find time to minister to others should definitely be highly regarded. They aren't giving out of mere obligation because they need to work to earn money, they are giving at a cost of their own comfort and enjoyments in life. That is very selfless.

That's almost like asking a full-time pastor to then go volunteer 10 or 15 hours a week at another organization after they have done their full-time duties at church for the week.

 

[SolaScriptura]

I’m assuming charitably that the OP is not repudiating 1 Cor 9:14 or seeking to manipulate and lay a burden on ministers to ignore this passage .

But it is true, that there seems to be a probable trend, that there are many regular or menial tasks which Historically or traditionally were done as acts of service fabulous volunteers for which in these days many don’t wanna do them unless they are compensated in some way. And this has resulted in churches having to hire people to do them in order for them to be done at all.

 

[Man of God]

If you're thinking of paid Sunday school administrators, musicians, building supervisors, etc., then I do remember with fondness the days when such paid positions were rare.

Hi Jack, That was exactly the sad observaton behind my post.

 

[njen]

In pondering on this topic... I suspect that the "seeker sensitive" movement has been a main contributor due to shifting expectations in subconscious ways.

Causing a move from unpaid volunteers meeting the needs of the church in a patchwork manner (w/ varying degrees of quality) to professional staff curating a reliable experience that is now expected.

At my church we have no paid staff aside from our TE. We don't have fancy programs, but we have many faithful saints who are able to set forth a wonderful example of service. We forego something AND we gain something. Probably very analogous to the pros & cons of a DIY home project. For instance, a DIY home project yields: results will be good but unpolished, cost is less, opportunity to teach kids/others along the way exists, skills develop, pride of ownership exists.

 

[Edward]

If you're thinking of paid Sunday school administrators, musicians, building supervisors, etc., then I do remember with fondness the days when such paid positions were rare.

And I remember fondly when double digit numbers of paid, trained armed security were needed on a Sunday morning. Most of us aren't living in the mid 20th century any more. And the need for security isn't just a large church issue - there was a parking lot shooting at a small PCA church (in a nice area) in Dallas less than 3 years ago.

 

[jwright82]

And I remember fondly when double digit numbers of paid, trained armed security were needed on a Sunday morning. Most of us aren't living in the mid 20th century any more. And the need for security isn't just a large church issue - there was a parking lot shooting at a small PCA church (in a nice area) in Dallas less than 3 years ago.

Besides the pastor (who carries every Sunday), there are many men in my church who carry every Sunday ( unpaid of course).