Classical Studies

[Me Died Blue]

I'm coming to the point at college now when I have to decide and commit to a major, if for no other reason than knowing what classes I need to take for next semester, and I'm having a lot of different thoughts at the time. In addition to merely inquiring my advisor and professors here, I thought it would be valuable to get the input of several friends here who have been much further in the "real world" of education and careers than myself.

I've been considering English for awhile, but from the start have also been disappointed in the English department here since majors can only concentrate in English Literature or Creative Writing - there is no journalism, technical writing or communication studies programs. Ultimately any major in the humanities field (English, History, Philosophy, etc.) will be good preparation for seminary and a possible career of teaching, writing and other things such as editorial work (as well as the possible consideration of ministry).

Thus far my thought had been that since technical writing is definitely something I want to be a part of whatever I end up doing, I figured an English major would give me the opportunity to write books and write for journals and possibly do something like editorial work while I'm still completing my education. But lately, the more I think about the fact that my English major here would only be in English literature, I'm wondering if it might not be the best field to get me opportunities in teaching and writing-related careers, and career opportunities that Journalism majors would get. What do some people here think about that? Would I be able to get the same career opportunities with an English Literature major that a Journalism or Technical Writing major would?

Secondly, in light of my recent rethinking of an English major in light of the options at my institution, I've been considering various fields related to humanities, such as history. Something that I was only recently reminded of, though, is the possibility of a major in Classical Studies. It would be through the Greek & Roman Studies department, and I would be concentrating on Classical Studies rather than Material Culture. Since certain history, philosophy, political science, literature and religious studies courses would all fulfill much of the requirements for that major, I'm wondering if it might possibly make for a broader spectrum of career opportunities than would an English Literature degree. What do some who have had experience in either field think? What kind of career opportunities does a Classical Studies major provide? Fred?

 

[SolaScriptura]

A degree in Classics would serve you well. I have had numerous professors who say that they believe an undergraduate degree in classics is an ideal choice.

 

[fredtgreco]

Chris,

I'm going to try and give some advice here as an old(er) man, in a fatherly sort of way. First, your major or plan of study in college is in large degree dependent on circumstances and your long range plan to provide for yourself and your family. In my opinion, far too few men (myself included at the time) give little to no thought to this. Unless you believe that you are to be single, your career must take into account at least two things: (1) your vocation (calling from God, whether it be ministry or not) and (2) the ability it gives you to provide for a family. School is helpful and interesting, but it will fall upon you to be the primary material provider for your family (should the Lord give you one). It is a simple fact of life now (as opposed to 100-200 years ago) that college is the main job preparation arena. Very few men now work in an apprenticeship situation (and I think apprenticeship is a good thing, and I would never tell my sons not to be a plumber or electrician - those men are worthy of great respect).

Second, with that acknowledgement, I believe that each young man should be able to say to himself after graduating from school (and that may include some graduate school): what job can I have? If you can't answer that question (and I couldn't) there is a problem. If your plan is more school (say, PhD or other work), you must then answer two questions: (1) what job can I have, and (2) will that job pay for my family's needs and the cost of further education?

Third, this may seem problematic for liberal arts majors. I think it should. Why? Because the liberal arts are just that - they are not training for work (per se), but the way a man is well rounded, educated in general and involved in the greater questions of life (philosophy, etc). I am not denigrating the need to study the liberal arts - far from it! I am saying that one can study them on one's own, or one should have a "back up" (if you will) plan for providing for one's family. Being educated is no excuse for poor providing. And the fact of the matter is that most men cannot provide for their family in such a manner. Not all - I know there are exceptions, so please no "my uncle did this" or "my friend did that." I am speaking in generalities.

Fourth, in addition to self study (which I highly recommend for all!), there is the abliity for most college students to major in one (job preparation) area and still study in another (English, history, art, etc). That might now please the liberal arts faculty - who are in turn dependent on getting majors to secure their own jobs - but it is possible at most schools.

Now, having said all of that, I would say (with bias of course) that Classics is one of the best, if not best liberal arts areas, especially for future ministry. Why?

1. It is language intensive, making it monumentally easier to study the Biblical languages. Biblical Greek is a snap after 3-4 years of Attic Greek.
2. It helps one to think in a logical manner. This is true of all language study, but is especially true of "dead" (i.e. non-spoken) languages. You MUST know grammar well.
3. Latin is a incredible vocabulary builder (Greek is helpful too). An incredible amount of words (especially uncommon ones) in English have Latin roots.
4. It is the broadest liberal arts field. Classics is held together by language, not viewpoint or genre. Within it, you can study poetry, drama, history, prose, philosophy, etc. It all depends on who you want to read.
5. Latin is helpful for theology. You can read Hodge's footnotes!
6. It provides easy entry into the Church Fathers.
7. Most of the Reformers and Puritans were classically trained. Owen, for example, is much easier to read after generous exposure to Latin. The reason he seems to think so convoluted and in long sentences is because his Engish is Latinized.
8. Especially with philosophy, Classics is exceedingly helpful. There really is no substitute for reading Plato in Greek.
   [/list=1]
   
   I hope this helps. Fire away with more questions. This very well may end up a blog entry for me, so the more material the better.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Originally posted by fredtgreco
I'm going to try and give some advice here as an old(er) man...

Well said, old man!

 

[Preach]

Chris, may I suggest (if you have not already done so) take the next week and read (I recommend listening on audio cassette) the book entitled "The Millionaire Next Door". It will dovetail with what Fred said regarding making a living.

 

[Me Died Blue]

Originally posted by SolaScriptura
A degree in Classics would serve you well. I have had numerous professors who say that they believe an undergraduate degree in classics is an ideal choice.

Thanks. My advisor and professors here have given some differing messages ranging from just that to the view that the major hardly matters, to a combination of the two.

Originally posted by fredtgreco
Chris,

I'm going to try and give some advice here as an old(er) man, in a fatherly sort of way. First, your major or plan of study in college is in large degree dependent on circumstances and your long range plan to provide for yourself and your family. In my opinion, far too few men (myself included at the time) give little to no thought to this. Unless you believe that you are to be single, your career must take into account at least two things: (1) your vocation (calling from God, whether it be ministry or not) and (2) the ability it gives you to provide for a family. School is helpful and interesting, but it will fall upon you to be the primary material provider for your family (should the Lord give you one). It is a simple fact of life now (as opposed to 100-200 years ago) that college is the main job preparation arena. Very few men now work in an apprenticeship situation (and I think apprenticeship is a good thing, and I would never tell my sons not to be a plumber or electrician - those men are worthy of great respect).

Second, with that acknowledgement, I believe that each young man should be able to say to himself after graduating from school (and that may include some graduate school): what job can I have? If you can't answer that question (and I couldn't) there is a problem. If your plan is more school (say, PhD or other work), you must then answer two questions: (1) what job can I have, and (2) will that job pay for my family's needs and the cost of further education?

Thank you for highlighting these important principles and reminders. While I've certainly thought about that central part of my future in a general sort of way, I confess I have never actually studied or bothered to find out about specifics that much, such as the actual scope and likely amount of a family budget and cost of living and how that compares what what I will actually be able to literally make with my out-of-college job. One thing that gives me some hope for further study in light of the increased financial independence and responsibility I will take on over the next couple years is the fact that graduate and seminary tuition is much less expensive than undergraduate education. Even so, I do not know nearly as much as I need to about the kind of specifics I mentioned above. Are there any resources you would particularly recommend to get an idea of such things (e.g. family-budgeting guides, books on pay ranges of certain out-of-college careers, etc.)?

Originally posted by fredtgreco
Third, this may seem problematic for liberal arts majors. I think it should. Why? Because the liberal arts are just that - they are not training for work (per se), but the way a man is well rounded, educated in general and involved in the greater questions of life (philosophy, etc). I am not denigrating the need to study the liberal arts - far from it! I am saying that one can study them on one's own, or one should have a "back up" (if you will) plan for providing for one's family. Being educated is no excuse for poor providing. And the fact of the matter is that most men cannot provide for their family in such a manner. Not all - I know there are exceptions, so please no "my uncle did this" or "my friend did that." I am speaking in generalities.

Fourth, in addition to self study (which I highly recommend for all!), there is the abliity for most college students to major in one (job preparation) area and still study in another (English, history, art, etc). That might now please the liberal arts faculty - who are in turn dependent on getting majors to secure their own jobs - but it is possible at most schools.

My advisor recently reminded me of the reality of being able to major in one thing and still study other fields, and I certainly want to study at least somewhat in some areas outside of my main interests - for a back-up, as you mentioned. My Greek professor (whom I've been talking with about the Classical Studies program) also noted that technically speaking, the only set of courses that is itself direct preparation for a specific job is accounting, and that all the other courses really have more or less a degree of the flexibility that I have been aware of in English Literature and Classical Studies, which can both ultimately be used for something like journalism or what have you. More on that below"¦

Originally posted by fredtgreco
Now, having said all of that, I would say (with bias of course) that Classics is one of the best, if not best liberal arts areas, especially for future ministry. Why?

1. It is language intensive, making it monumentally easier to study the Biblical languages. Biblical Greek is a snap after 3-4 years of Attic Greek.
2. It helps one to think in a logical manner. This is true of all language study, but is especially true of "dead" (i.e. non-spoken) languages. You MUST know grammar well.
3. Latin is a incredible vocabulary builder (Greek is helpful too). An incredible amount of words (especially uncommon ones) in English have Latin roots.
4. It is the broadest liberal arts field. Classics is held together by language, not viewpoint or genre. Within it, you can study poetry, drama, history, prose, philosophy, etc. It all depends on who you want to read.
5. Latin is helpful for theology. You can read Hodge's footnotes!
6. It provides easy entry into the Church Fathers.
7. Most of the Reformers and Puritans were classically trained. Owen, for example, is much easier to read after generous exposure to Latin. The reason he seems to think so convoluted and in long sentences is because his Engish is Latinized.
8. Especially with philosophy, Classics is exceedingly helpful. There really is no substitute for reading Plato in Greek.
   [/list=1]

1. 
   
   Things like that in light of writing, teaching and ministry considerations are definitely parts of what initially attracted me to the possibility of a Classical Studies degree. Even so, do you think a Classical Studies major, with the variety of fields it allows one to study in even in the undergraduate years, is enough of a "back-up" itself per se to maximize the security of being able to provide via a just-out-of-college job, completely apart from any consideration of ministry or even teaching?
   
   

   Originally posted by fredtgreco
   I hope this helps. Fire away with more questions. This very well may end up a blog entry for me, so the more material the better.

   
   It definitely helps, both in terms of my considerations of what to study now as well as starting to think more specifically about how I am going to be able to apply that right out of college and in the long-run. I really appreciate your taking the time to give the advice.
   
   

   Originally posted by Preach
   Chris, may I suggest (if you have not already done so) take the next week and read (I recommend listening on audio cassette) the book entitled "The Millionaire Next Door". It will dovetail with what Fred said regarding making a living.

   
   Is there a good deal for it online? Or is the best bet probably something like Amazon or a local bookstore? Also, what would you say is the "gist" of the book, or at least the angle from which it's written?

 

[Preach]

Chris, go to your local library and check it out. Take the money you would have spent on the book (audio cassettes) and open a no load mutual fund. The authors have studied the wealthy (millionaires) in America for over 20 years. The millionaires are not who you think they are. They are your next door neighbors.

Chris, you are in an extraordinary position (the likes of which many on the PB are not). At your age, you could open a roth IRA, and or a no load mutual fund (you can get started for as little as $50.00 per month on an automatic investment program). My brother, you have the opportunity to be a multi-millionaire in an early retirement if you start now. Compound interest over time means Chris has the opportunity to be a decamillionaire (10= million) in your lifetime. But you need to start now and stay on a steady automatic investment program.

Go to your local library and check out Kiplinger's or Money magazine. Spend a few hours looking at the stock no load mutual funds. Pick one that has a good Morningstar rating that is no load (no commission fees) call the 800# and start an automatic investment program for 50.00 per month.

Just to give you an example of the opportunity you have because of your youth: Lets's say that after a year you have $1,000 in a no load IRA roth mutual fund. The money is never taxed (as long as the tax laws stay as they are. This is money you contribute from your ewarned income. At 10% interest, your money doubles approx. every 7 years. If you let that 1,000 dollars alone, and reinvested the interest, at the end of 63 years, the $1,000 would have doubled 9 times. Get out a calculator and work the math. That's approx. $500,000 from a $1,000 investment. Remember, for as little as $50.00 per month you can start on the road to financial independence.

I'd venture to say (statistically speaking) that most of the folk on the PB are what the authors of the book call UAW's (under accumulators of wealth) as opposed to PAW's (Prodigious accumalators of wealth).

You will learn how millionaire's became millionaire's and why they are your next door neighbors. Many people on the PB (again statistically speaking) are in dire straits regarding their financial future and retirement. Reading (I strongly recommend listening on cd or audio) to this book is my recommendation for your future (it speaks to your future spouse, your consumption habits, etc). I cannot recommend it highly enough.
"In Christ",
Bobby

 

[VictorBravo]

Chris, I just want to add to Fred's endorsement of studying language. I would suggest mastering, (really mastering to the point of fluency) at least one modern language while studying what you do. Two languages that seem to me to be pragmatically useful are Spanish and Arabic.

If you master a language, it is much easier to learn others. For instance, I obtained a minor in French while studying Agronomy. A few years later I found myself in Iraq (long before the current hostilities) as an agriculturalist. I learned enough conversational and written Arabic in two months that I could read the paper and speak with natives. I credit my French studies with allowing me to systematically and quickly learn another language.

And it goes on. My Arabic background makes learning Hebrew much easier.

But, the pragmatic part is intriguing to me for a young person now. I have one acquaintance who majored in Spanish and Classics. Right out of college she was hired at a very high wage to translate corporate documents.

Another person I know of translates Arabic documents on contract with the government. He works at home and makes an upper-middle class income and has lots of free time.

So, I think you can obtain marketable skills while working on a Classics degree.

Vic