Curious about the FCoS (Continuing)

[Polanus1561]

Presbytery of the United States of America - FCC

BePolitics | Best WordPress theme for politic organizations and so on

www.freechurchcontinuing.org

I was just wondering will the American presbytery will ever be independent? Or is the current status of it being the American presbytery of a Scottish denomination the desired position and will continue on?

 

[Jeri Tanner]

Others can answer more fully than I, but briefly yes, the desire is to become an American denomination. Here is the U.S. Presbytery website: https://www.westminsterconfession.org/

 

[Afterthought]

We would need enough to form a general assembly. While it is non-ideal to be under the GA of a Scottish denomination, it is good to have that extra layer of accountability.

 

[Edward]

the desire is to become an American denomination.

I consider that to be unfortunate. There are plenty of presbyterian (lower case intentional) micro-denominations in this country. Being part of a larger (if still tiny) confession suggests a stability that we don't often see in the micros.

 

[MChase]

I consider that to be unfortunate. There are plenty of presbyterian (lower case intentional) micro-denominations in this country. Being part of a larger (if still tiny) confession suggests a stability that we don't often see in the micros.

Why is it necessary to denigrate? When Presbyterianism made its way to what is now the US, it is not like the full Presbyterian structure with thousands of Churches and ministers were propped up immediately. Further, if the PCA were to plant Churches in Guatamala, are you really saying that you think the most biblical pattern is to require them to be part of an American denomination for perpetuity? Are you also lamenting the recent announcement that the RP's in Canada have now formed an indigenous denomination?

If the American denominations did not forsake some of the doctrines of the Westminster Standards, I think many of us would be elated to not have to be in such small denominations. At a certain level, we believe we are compelled to such because things like Sabbath keeping and Psalm singing is looked upon with a good deal of hostility in many quarters of the PCA and OPC.

 

[TylerRay]

The ballpark figure that presbytery is aiming for is twelve well-established, self-sustaining congregations, which could make up three presbyteries (with four congregations each), together comprising a synod. At that point we could become a separate, indigenous denomination. @Edward's concern about stability is something presbytery is very keen on as well. We don't want to be another unstable micro-presbytery.

 

[Edward]

Why is it necessary to denigrate?

When one digs into the splitters who keep splitting until they have to a number that wouldn't be called a congregation, much less a presbytery or denomination, one sees that it's as often driven by personalities as by doctrine.

The ballpark figure that presbytery is aiming for is twelve well-established, self-sustaining congregations

I think that would make a nice Presbytery and a good start. More Confessional presbyterian congreagations is a good thing. Presbyteries of 4 churches, to my mind, is slicing things too thin.

 

[PointyHaired Calvinist]

What’s keeping the FCC from joining with (or absorbing) say the Presbyterian Reformed Church? They se em to have virtually the same distinctives.

 

[Polanus1561]

What’s keeping the FCC from joining with (or absorbing) say the Presbyterian Reformed Church? They se em to have virtually the same distinctives.

From their GA Report in 2021

Presbyterian Reformed Church

In particular, close informal ties have developed in recent years with the Presbyterian Reformed Church (PRC). The PRC is a small, conservative denomination, which originated from Canadian congregations associated with the Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland. In its worship (Authorised version, metrical Psalms, women with heads covered and experimental preaching) it precisely resembles the Free Church (Continuing), and its constitutional basis would appear to be identical. It has one congregation and minister in the UK (Rev. R. Mohon, Stockton-on-Tees, who maintains close ties with our Church).

As reported to the Assembly last year, the PRC has expressed interest in union with the United States Presbytery of the Free Church (Continuing), but appears reluctant to consider formal union with the Scottish Church. Our United States Presbytery is not at present prepared to consider severing the institutional tie with Scotland. Given this situation, the Committee, in consultation with our US Presbytery, took the unusual decision to plan to send a delegate from the Scottish Church to attend the Presbytery of the PRC meeting in June 2020. The Committee hoped that our delegate could convey our warm interest in Scotland in ecumenical relations with the PRC, while also explaining the autonomy that our Presbyteries enjoy as the radical court of the Church, and therefore the absence of any intrusive or authoritarian control on the part of our General Assembly over the affairs of American or Canadian congregations. The Committee hoped that by clearing misconceptions, and communicating good will, closer ecumenical ties between the Free Church (Continuing) and the PRC, even to the extent of union, may be possible in due course. This trip had to be cancelled due to the Covid-19 pandemic.

The Committee, however, have received a further invitation to attend the meeting of the PRC presbytery, meeting in King, North Carolina, USA, on 27-29 May 2021, DV. At time of writing, the Committee is considering the possibility of sending the Convener to attend this meeting, should regulations on travel permit that. As a younger man, the Convener should not be at any particular risk from such travel. He also had suspended flights with Loganair and travel vouchers with KLM, arising from the cancelled trip to attend the EuCRC meeting in the Netherlands in 2020, which should cover the majority of the cost involved, and which otherwise would expire unused, as no other travel on behalf of the Ecumenical Relations Committee is currently planned for 2021.

 

[MChase]

What’s keeping the FCC from joining with (or absorbing) say the Presbyterian Reformed Church? They se em to have virtually the same distinctives.

In addition to what John has put, I think it is public enough information to share that a few years back the PRC petitioned the FCC US Presbytery for merger (so contrary to the opinion of some, us 'micro' folks are not all about splitting). The US Presbytery of the FCC did not see it fitting at the time in large part due to their desire for a GA/Synod before forming an indigenous denomination.

 

[PointyHaired Calvinist]

In addition to what John has put, I think it is public enough information to share that a few years back the PRC petitioned the FCC US Presbytery for merger (so contrary to the opinion of some, us 'micro' folks are not all about splitting). The US Presbytery of the FCC did not see it fitting at the time in large part due to their desire for a GA/Synod before forming an indigenous denomination.

I don’t understand the FCC’s reasoning. They’d rather have two tiny denominations now rather than one small denomination. But when their tiny denomination grows to become a small one, THEN they’ll absorb the tiny one?! Sorry but I’m lost here.

 

[kodos]

I am not a member of either church court. However, with this kind of thing, matters are not as simple as bystanders may imagine. I am certain that there are very good and godly men in both denominations who desire union. We will see what the Lord does with them in the future as His prayer that "they might be one" (John 17:11) will be answered in due time.

It is also interesting that PCA men are commenting disparagingly on these matters given their own identical Confession with the OPC and the history of the formation of the PCA itself. Evidently, if you are large enough, then you are validated in staying separated from other brethren. It is rare to even have a PCA man come visit our Synod meetings, even though we are all brethren in NAPARC. Though OPC men show up regularly, for which we are thankful!

 

[TylerRay]

I don’t understand the FCC’s reasoning. They’d rather have two tiny denominations now rather than one small denomination. But when their tiny denomination grows to become a small one, THEN they’ll absorb the tiny one?! Sorry but I’m lost here.

We're not a tiny denomination. We have seven presbyteries. The concern, as I understand it, with my presbytery breaking off from our denomination to join with the PRC is that we would then be a very small and fragile denomination.

I think men in both the US presbytery of the FCC and the PRC are warm toward the idea of union. It's mainly a question of whether it would be better to be a part of the larger body in Scotland for now, or be a small American denomination.

 

[Edward]

We're not a tiny denomination.

From the denominational website, it looks like about 40 congregations. (The presbytery website doesn't show the one in Washington, DC which appears on the denominational site, and the link on the denominational site lands on the presbytery site, so it appears that it may have been a failed plant). It is certainly NOT a micro, and if you prefer 'small' to 'tiny', I'll go with that henceforth. I thought I heard rumors last year about a possible work planned in Texas for your denomination. (Glanced at their Facebook page - it looks like a preaching station of the FCC)

A couple of weeks ago the pastor of a church in another small (tiny? - 24 congregations) but growing denomination taught our Sunday School class. Evangelical Presbyterian Church of England and Wales.

 

[N. Eshelman]

Here's what the FCC (cont.) reports on their North American church (in their reports to GA, which begins Monday). This may be helpful in seeing how close they are to whatever markers they have laid out for making an US indigenous denomination. I am not sure what they have by way of communicants/baptized (they'd say "baptised) members. I imagine they are around 350-400 members total? Not sure.

North America

Smiths Falls, Canada
This has been a difficult year in Smiths Falls; those who attend do so faithfully, but their numbers have reduced. The Kirk Session is considering sending a representative to encourage the work and assess the situation.

United States of America
The Committee maintain a supervisory and supportive role in relation to the Presbytery of the USA, including ensuring the ready flow of information between Scotland and the USA.

The Presbytery give thanks to God for its continuing connection with the wider denomination, and continue to labour and pray that God would bless the testimony and heritage of the Free Church throughout the United States.

The Presbytery consists of four established Congregations: Atlanta, Georgia; Burlington/Mebane, North Carolina; Greenville, South Carolina; St. Louis, Missouri; and a Preaching Station in Auburn-Opelika, Alabama, and another in Greenville, Texas. Each of these Congregations maintain two services of worship on the Lord’s Day and a midweek meeting. There are four active ministers (Rev. Robert D. McCurley, Rev. Gavin Beers, Rev. Jonathan Mattull and Rev. Brent C. Evans), one retired minister (Rev. Warren Gardner), one licentiate (Rev. Joshua Cochran), two official FC(C) Students under care of Presbytery (Mr. Tyler Ray and Mr. Logan Shelton), and two students in Greenville Seminary who hope to apply to be received as FC(C) Divinity students.

The Preaching Station in Greenville, Texas, was erected in September 2022. A group from Greenville reached out to the Presbytery the previous year, and after an initial visit by two ministers it was decided to pursue the potential of starting a work. In the mercy and providence of God, a small local PCA congregation in the town was willing to discuss joining the interested group, and as discussions progressed, the PCA elder indicated his desire to bring the few remaining members, together with their building and financial assets, into an FC(C) Church Plant. This provision meant there were sufficient funds to pay for resident pulpit supply, and Rev. Craig Scott (Grand Rapids RPCNA) was approached. The Lord put it in his heart and prepared the way for him to go, and he has been ministering fruitfully in Greenville, Texas, for the last six months. Mr Scott has made Application for Admission to the FC(C), and a Petition was received from the preaching station at the March Presbytery meeting to raise it to a fully-sanctioned charge. In the light of this Petition, the Presbytery resolved to Petition the General Assembly for the raising of the Preaching Station at Greenville, Texas, to a fully-sanctioned Charge. There are currently 35-40 people attending worship services each week.

The Preaching Station in Auburn-Opelika continues to prosper under the blessing of God. New members have been added and Mr. Logan Shelton has been faithful in ministering as resident supply. Mr. Shelton has now finished his seminary studies and has met with the Training of the Ministry & Admissions Committee in Scotland; it is hoped that he will soon receive his Completion Certificate and thereafter be licensed and ordained as a minister of the Gospel. The Presbytery met in Opelika in November 2022, and received a petition to raise the preaching station to a fully-sanctioned charge. This has led to the Presbytery petitioning the General Assembly thereanent. With the Lord’s blessing there is therefore the potential for the Presbytery to have two further established Congregations (Opelika, Alabama and Greenville, Texas), able to call and have settled their own ministers in 2023, thus raising the number of congregations and active ministers in the Presbytery to six.

The Presbytery continue to investigate a Church plant in the Philadelphia area, although this has not progressed as much as desired. In the last year contact was made by a group in Southern Alberta, and an investigative meeting took place in February 2023. There is the potential of raising a preaching station in this area, but there are a few obstacles in God’s providence that need to be worked through, particularly the provision of pulpit supply, and we commit this to the prayers of the Church. Another group of families have reached out from central Virginia and one initial meeting has been conducted with them. The group have expressed their desire for further discussion, and this will be ongoing. Please pray for wisdom for the Presbytery as they evaluate potential church plants and for the provision of men to supply pulpits.

Last year the Presbytery reported to the Assembly that a preaching station had been erected just over the Mexican border in Nuevo Laredo. This work continues to encourage, and a number of visits have taken place throughout the last year. Baptisms were conducted and a first Communion Season was held. There are currently around forty people connected with this work, but they lack pulpit supply. Two of the local men have worked diligently to translate and dub over YouTube videos of preaching from the Congregations of our Presbytery, and the people watch these each week. The Presbytery continue to provide online catechetical instruction and teaching on the Confession of Faith, and one desire is that through this local men can be identified and prepared to hold office. The Church’s prayers are solicited, and any help of available men to supply the pulpit for a period of weeks would be welcome as local men are able and willing to provide live translation in the services.

The Committee reported last year on the opportunity for our Congregation in North Carolina to purchase the building they have been renting from a local Associated Reformed Presbyterian Church. It was hoped that the purchase would be made quickly, but this was delayed due to the ARP Congregation having to sort out some legal matters before they could sell their property. These have recently been resolved and the purchase will soon be completed. The Congregation have raised the funds to purchase the building outright and to begin some needed renovations. May the Lord be praised for his mercy.

The Presbytery held their annual Family Conference in Lexington, Kentucky, during August 2022, and were again disappointed in not being able to invite one of our Scottish ministers to speak due to travel restrictions. They were glad to be able to invite Rev. Ian Macleod, minister in the Heritage Reformed Congregations in Canada, who preached a series of messages on the Sonship of Christ and the believer’s sonship in Him. It will be a delight to the Presbytery to resume the practice of inviting our Scottish brethren over, with Rev. David Blunt scheduled to be the visiting speaker in August 2023.

Grange Press Trust, the Presbytery’s publishing arm, continues to publish its quarterly periodical, The Master’s Trumpet. The digital Psalm singing albums, and the Shorter Catechism memorization card deck, continue to sell well. The Presbytery praise God that a major publication came to fruition this year in the production of a Greek New Testament Reader based on the Received Text of Scripture. This has been well and widely received and the initial sales have been very encouraging. As this report is written, a new edition of the 1650 Psalter together with explanatory notes for each psalm, is at the printers and prayer is requested for the sale and distribution of this volume. Other books in line to be published include John Brown of Wamphray on the Nature of the Church, Gisbertus Voetius’ treatment on musical instruments in worship, and Thomas Boston’s Memorial on Personal and Family Humiliation and Fasting.