Cussing

[WrittenFromUtopia]

Originally posted by Scott Bushey
Gabriel,
Please define the Col passage. Biblically, what is filthy communication? Please give me examples?

[Edited on 2-7-2005 by Scott Bushey]

That's so easy it isn't even funny. However, to explain it I'll have to be creative as this board censors the words I'd use to describe filthy communication

This means speaking about impure things, sexually immoral acts/jokes, crude humor, talking about girls' anatomy and guys' anatomy, etc...

The concept of "communication" does not in any way lead me to think "individual words that are bad" but the manner of your conversation with others.

This is why I do not tolerate filthy talk or talking about "dirty" jokes, etc. because doing such things leads me to think about impure ideas or lust or to not have a mind on purity or godly things.

[Edited on 7-2-2005 by WrittenFromUtopia]

 

[Scott Bushey]

Communication are words grouped together to make coherent statements. You cannot say that singularly, words are not communicative statements in and of themselves. For instance, when I say to my daughter, "HOT", does it not send a message? Or how about the word HOLY?

Matthew 12:34-36: "O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. 35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. 36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment."

Psalm 19:14: "Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer."

Jesus is rebuking the Pharisees; They speak evil. Please tell me how using words that our society has deemed illicit not be in the same way evil. God has given our leaders the responbsibility in drawing standards in this regard. The bible speaks in general terms, i.e evil speaking, malicious talk, etc.

~Would you use the term you previously said in Christs presence?

[Edited on 2-7-2005 by Scott Bushey]

 

[ReformedWretch]

We're not even to MOURN like heathen do! Let alone talk like them.

 

[kceaster]

I like the point that was mentioned earlier about sentiments or words being derogatory. Then I started to think, are there any curse words that are edifying? And before someone wants to take off on that and make it subjective, I would remind you that we live before the face of God.

So, are there any curse words that are not derogatory?

KC

 

[Scott Bushey]

Kevin add this in to the equation:

"1Co 10:31 Then whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all things to the glory of God."

Can you use this language to glorify God?

 

[kceaster]

Yes, Scott, good point.

KC

 

[panta dokimazete]

postmodernism, anyone?

 

[fredtgreco]

Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia

Originally posted by Scott Bushey
Gabriel,
Please define the Col passage. Biblically, what is filthy communication? Please give me examples?

[Edited on 2-7-2005 by Scott Bushey]

That's so easy it isn't even funny. However, to explain it I'll have to be creative as this board censors the words I'd use to describe filthy communication

This means speaking about impure things, sexually immoral acts/jokes, crude humor, talking about girls' anatomy and guys' anatomy, etc...

The concept of "communication" does not in any way lead me to think "individual words that are bad" but the manner of your conversation with others.

This is why I do not tolerate filthy talk or talking about "dirty" jokes, etc. because doing such things leads me to think about impure ideas or lust or to not have a mind on purity or godly things.

[Edited on 7-2-2005 by WrittenFromUtopia]

And so what do you do when someone comes up to you after you use a "colorful adjective" and asks, what that means? Do you lie, or do you "speak about impure things, sexually immoral acts/jokes" ?

Hmm?

 

[LadyFlynt]

Originally posted by ABondSlaveofChristJesus

I understand that this is the internet and there are no rules here; well, let me tell you, the PB has rules. If you cuss, you break our rules.

I know this, and like my opening post, I am just curious to why these rules are here. I am not trying to break the rules.

Because it is offensive and deemed inappropriate speech for most Christians?

 

[alwaysreforming]

To add my two cents, I'm simply going to repeat my reply I made in the previous thread we had on this topic.

"I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that yes, curse words ARE inherently wrong in themselves. I took a brief tour through the other post (ref. above) and can see there is some disagreement here. But I think when all the sophistry and debate over semantics is put away, one would have to discern that there is just something wrong with words such as... (fill in the blank).

Sure, there are other words that could be translated "dung", etc. and may be found in the Bible, but that's not the point. The point is that some words are inherently harsh, and ugly. They have no place in a Christian's vocabulary OR mind! Some words have a past in racial hatred, or at a whore house, or are associated with p0rnography, etc. You can rest assured that Jesus would NEVER use language such as that which will undoubtably be argued for by some Christians! Neither would you dare stand before the throne and utter such nonsense.

And of course there are some words which are not "so" bad, but they would still be better left unused by the Christian. Even as a Christian, I say two bad words (he**, and dam*). I can't tell you how embarrassed I've been by a NON-believer telling me to "watch my language."

Let your conscience be your guide. If you feel that something is on the edge of inappropriateness, then don't use it. If however, one's conscious says that even the most vulgar of words are not wrong, then one has a problem with his/her conscience!"

Also, if we have a doubt about a word and asked ourselves, "Would Jesus use this word?" If the answer is "No" then we must ask ourselves "Why?" If its NOT sinful, then what should keep the Lord from using it? This should be a hint that certain words/speech ARE inherently sinful.

Me two cents!

 

[ABondSlaveofChristJesus]

Sure, there are other words that could be translated "dung", etc. and may be found in the Bible, but that's not the point. The point is that some words are inherently harsh, and ugly. They have no place in a Christian's vocabulary OR mind! Some words have a past in racial hatred, or at a whore house, or are associated with p0rnography, etc. You can rest assured that Jesus would NEVER use language such as that which will undoubtably be argued for by some Christians! Neither would you dare stand before the throne and utter such nonsense.

This is the best defense I've heard so far. However when we say words if the origin was offensive, we'd know that. Involving the basic 4 letter cuss words there origin is very vauge, just like any other word. Degrading racist words are bad if they are used in a degrading way, yet many times they are used in mere jest. Some words like fool, disgusting idiot, moronic, have a more potentially sinful inheritence, as they are negative. Yet they are not sinful words, or even argued about.

[Edited on 7-2-2005 by ABondSlaveofChristJesus]

[Edited on 7-2-2005 by ABondSlaveofChristJesus]

 

[Scott Bushey]

Originally posted by ABondSlaveofChristJesus

Sure, there are other words that could be translated "dung", etc. and may be found in the Bible, but that's not the point. The point is that some words are inherently harsh, and ugly. They have no place in a Christian's vocabulary OR mind! Some words have a past in racial hatred, or at a whore house, or are associated with p0rnography, etc. You can rest assured that Jesus would NEVER use language such as that which will undoubtably be argued for by some Christians! Neither would you dare stand before the throne and utter such nonsense.

This is the best defense I've heard so far. However when we say words if the origin was offensive, we'd know that. Involving the basic 4 letter cuss words there origin is very vauge, just like any other word. I think a few words depending on their origin could be inherently wrong, like degrading racist words, origining from hate.

Timm,
Scripture has been cited and you have not heard that. However, the above post strikes a chord. This concerns me for you.............The origin of the 4 or so cuss words you refer to, are not vague, at least from my knowledge. Again I ask, would you comfortably cite these words in front of Christ? Will using these words bring God glory?

 

[ABondSlaveofChristJesus]

Originally posted by Scott Bushey

Originally posted by ABondSlaveofChristJesus

Sure, there are other words that could be translated "dung", etc. and may be found in the Bible, but that's not the point. The point is that some words are inherently harsh, and ugly. They have no place in a Christian's vocabulary OR mind! Some words have a past in racial hatred, or at a whore house, or are associated with p0rnography, etc. You can rest assured that Jesus would NEVER use language such as that which will undoubtably be argued for by some Christians! Neither would you dare stand before the throne and utter such nonsense.

This is the best defense I've heard so far. However when we say words if the origin was offensive, we'd know that. Involving the basic 4 letter cuss words there origin is very vauge, just like any other word. I think a few words depending on their origin could be inherently wrong, like degrading racist words, origining from hate.

Timm,
Scripture has been cited and you have not heard that. However, the above post strikes a chord. This concerns me for you.............The origin of the 4 or so cuss words you refer to, are not vague, at least from my knowledge. Again I ask, would you comfortably cite these words in front of Christ? Will using these words bring God glory?

I updated this specific post. I have read the scripture and it all refers to content in my opinion, not individual words. I have no idea where the origin are derived for the basic words. Is this common knowledge? If so could you u2u me with the info? These words can bring just as much glory to God as the next sound. It's our content that brings the glory. I respectfully disagree.

Also, this is to everyone:

Can we please discuss this situation with an attitude of love and patience. I see a few post that come across as somewhat patronizing. Even though we are not being blunty mean, it is obvious in the sarcastic tones. Let's be longsuffering and remember that as reformed brothers and sisters, we are in unity with the fundamental doctrines of scripture.

[Edited on 7-2-2005 by ABondSlaveofChristJesus]

 

[Scott Bushey]

Originally posted by ABondSlaveofChristJesus

Originally posted by Scott Bushey

Originally posted by ABondSlaveofChristJesus

Sure, there are other words that could be translated "dung", etc. and may be found in the Bible, but that's not the point. The point is that some words are inherently harsh, and ugly. They have no place in a Christian's vocabulary OR mind! Some words have a past in racial hatred, or at a whore house, or are associated with p0rnography, etc. You can rest assured that Jesus would NEVER use language such as that which will undoubtably be argued for by some Christians! Neither would you dare stand before the throne and utter such nonsense.

This is the best defense I've heard so far. However when we say words if the origin was offensive, we'd know that. Involving the basic 4 letter cuss words there origin is very vauge, just like any other word. I think a few words depending on their origin could be inherently wrong, like degrading racist words, origining from hate.

Timm,
Scripture has been cited and you have not heard that. However, the above post strikes a chord. This concerns me for you.............The origin of the 4 or so cuss words you refer to, are not vague, at least from my knowledge. Again I ask, would you comfortably cite these words in front of Christ? Will using these words bring God glory?

I updated this specific post. I have read the scripture and it all refers to content in my opinion, not individual words. I have no idea where the origin are derived for the basic words. Is this common knowledge? If so could you u2u me with the info? These words can bring just as much glory to God as the next sound. It's our content that brings the glory. I respectfully disagree.

Also, this is to everyone:

Can we please discuss this situation with an attitude of love and patience. I see a few post that come across as somewhat patronizing. Even though we are not being blunty mean, it is obvious in the sarcastic tones. Let's be longsuffering and remember that as reformed brothers and sisters, we are in unity with the fundamental doctrines of scripture.

[Edited on 7-2-2005 by ABondSlaveofChristJesus]

Tim,
For some reason you seem to be trying to overly emphasize the singular word from strings as if the singular cannot hold the same amount of information. The passages are content; filth. Socially, the words you want to embrace equate with filth; they are not ambiguous or arbitrary.

 

[Contra_Mundum]

This thread had made me think. I'm sure that my usage of said terminology were sins against conscience, and against the third commandment, which enjoins sobriety and gravity in our use of the spoken (and written) word. Jesus (Mt 5:37), James (3:2-12), Paul (Col 4:6), Peter (1 Pet. 4:11), John (1 Jn 3:18), and Jude (v. 9)--all of NT writers in one place or another call us to careful use of the tongue. A distinguishing use that sets us off over against the world.

Some of the examples of exclamations set forth in this thread are vulgarisms, plain and simple. They are by definition a debased form of language. God wants us to think about what we are saying, not carelessly toss off some convenient, comfortable phrase because we think it's expressive. Expressive of what? What does "I [Censored] love you" express? Do you want to [Censored] that person? Would you use that expression with someone you really wanted to [Censored]? Would that expressoin ever send a mixed message? Or one you would be scandalized by if it were taken seriously?

None of this will convince those of you who want to use that kind of talk, and will find a justification for it. You could take it from me and the voice of my experience (if you had a mind to) that it ultimately will bring you pain. I learned it not once, but twice, the hard way. And I'm still reaping.

 

[ABondSlaveofChristJesus]

Tim,
For some reason you seem to be trying to overly emphasize the singular word from strings as if the singular cannot hold the same amount of information. The passages are content; filth. Socially, the words you want to embrace equate with filth; they are not ambiguous or arbitrary.

The idol word is just as idol as the next. For example, dung is acceptable but a synonym of it not. Why?

 

[Scott Bushey]

Tim,
Does not Paul say their is such a thing as filthy language?

Col 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.

yes or no?

 

[Ianterrell]

Everybody,

Let's be clear. "That's just Common sense" isn't a good response to whether or not "cursing" or "swearing" is a sin. Just like any other issue you must be willing to explain your position. Saying we shouldn't use foul speech without seeking the biblical definition of foul speech isn't a defense for the normal evangelical position which says that a small collection of 6-10 words in english constitute the insidious foul speech category.

 

[Scott Bushey]

Did Peter sin here in cursing and swearing?

Mat 26:69 Now Peter sat without in the palace: and a damsel came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus of Galilee.
Mat 26:70 But he denied before them all, saying, I know not what thou sayest.
Mat 26:71 And when he was gone out into the porch, another maid saw him, and said unto them that were there, This fellow was also with Jesus of Nazareth.
Mat 26:72 And again he denied with an oath, I do not know the man.
Mat 26:73 And after a while came unto him they that stood by, and said to Peter, Surely thou also art one of them; for thy speech bewrayeth thee.
Mat 26:74 Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew.
Mat 26:75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.

 

[Ianterrell]

Originally posted by Scott Bushey
Did Peter sin here in cursing and swearing?

Mat 26:69 Now Peter sat without in the palace: and a damsel came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus of Galilee.
Mat 26:70 But he denied before them all, saying, I know not what thou sayest.
Mat 26:71 And when he was gone out into the porch, another maid saw him, and said unto them that were there, This fellow was also with Jesus of Nazareth.
Mat 26:72 And again he denied with an oath, I do not know the man.
Mat 26:73 And after a while came unto him they that stood by, and said to Peter, Surely thou also art one of them; for thy speech bewrayeth thee.
Mat 26:74 Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the <b>[Censored]</b> crew.
Mat 26:75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the <b>[Censored]</b> crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.

Scott,

In keeping with the logic (if it may be called such) of the anti-cussing brigade, yes Peter was a cussin machine! Words, no matter what the context or meaning, EVEN if they CAN be used in a dirty way are consequently inherantly sinful.

 

[ReformedWretch]

Originally posted by Ianterrell
Everybody,

Let's be clear. "That's just Common sense" isn't a good response to whether or not "cursing" or "swearing" is a sin. Just like any other issue you must be willing to explain your position. Saying we shouldn't use foul speech without seeking the biblical definition of foul speech isn't a defense for the normal evangelical position which says that a small collection of 6-10 words in english constitute the insidious foul speech category.

Sorry Ivan, that's just how I see it. In fact, I am kind of SHOCKED that anyone here would even contenplate the idea of cursing being acceptable before the Lord.

Now, if I am talking to an unregenrate/retrobate person I may realize that I need to explain this to him in such detail. But amongst the brethern I am simply aghast that this is being debated so.

Do you not believe that some things just conflict with our walk without having to run to our bibles and look it up? I mean if you were a liberal I could see this argument but otherwise I just can't. If that causes some of you to question me or my walk with Christ then I am truely sorry.

I am convicted immediately the second I do anything that is out of character with my claiming Christ and I don't seek to go to the scriptures and see if there is anything that could make me feel less guilty before Him for what I did or said.

Just moments ago I said someone was acting like a b**ch and I was immediately ashamed. I only said it to my wife, in anger, because the person I spoke of had just fouled a plan up that me and a co-worker had spent 30 minutes or so figuring out! She did this with an attitude and as if she is in a position of authority that she is not in and displayed a horrible example to several children.

I had a reason to be angry, I even had a reason to speak out against it to my wife in PRIVATE. But I did not have a right to use that term and I would never seek approval within myself to have used it. In fact, I think I stumbled and used it because of this discussion "careful so that you do not fall" immediately comes to mind and I repent of that! While thinking too highly of myself in regard to this SIN I actually stumbled and fell into it!

So I am not here to judge those of you who curse time to time as my sins are many! But I humbly ask all of you to consider no longer seeking to justify filthy talk because the bible does is not "clear enough" in regard to what a curse word is and isn't. It is honestly breaking my heart.

 

[ABondSlaveofChristJesus]

Originally posted by Scott Bushey
Tim,
Does not Paul say their is such a thing as filthy language?

Col 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.

yes or no?

Yep filthy content is filthy language. It's that simple.

 

[Scott Bushey]

Who determines 'filthy talk"?

 

[ReformedWretch]

If it "lessens" your witness...curse word or not, should you say it?

 

[Scott Bushey]

Tim,
OK. Well scripture states that there is such a thing as filthy talk. Peter Cursed. Obviously the term refers to singular words...........do you agree?

 

[ABondSlaveofChristJesus]

Originally posted by houseparent

Originally posted by Ianterrell
Everybody,

Let's be clear. "That's just Common sense" isn't a good response to whether or not "cursing" or "swearing" is a sin. Just like any other issue you must be willing to explain your position. Saying we shouldn't use foul speech without seeking the biblical definition of foul speech isn't a defense for the normal evangelical position which says that a small collection of 6-10 words in english constitute the insidious foul speech category.

Sorry Ivan, that's just how I see it. In fact, I am kind of SHOCKED that anyone here would even contenplate the idea of cursing being acceptable before the Lord.

Now, if I am talking to an unregenrate/retrobate person I may realize that I need to explain this to him in such detail. But amongst the brethern I am simply aghast that this is being debated so.

Do you not believe that some things just conflict with our walk without having to run to our bibles and look it up? I mean if you were a liberal I could see this argument but otherwise I just can't. If that causes some of you to question me or my walk with Christ then I am truely sorry.

I am convicted immediately the second I do anything that is out of character with my claiming Christ and I don't seek to go to the scriptures and see if there is anything that could make me feel less guilty before Him for what I did or said.

Just moments ago I said someone was acting like a b**ch and I was immediately ashamed. I only said it to my wife, in anger, because the person I spoke of had just fouled a plan up that me and a co-worker had spent 30 minutes or so figuring out! She did this with an attitude and as if she is in a position of authority that she is not in and displayed a horrible example to several children.

I had a reason to be angry, I even had a reason to speak out against it to my wife in PRIVATE. But I did not have a right to use that term and I would never seek approval within myself to have used it. In fact, I think I stumbled and used it because of this discussion "careful so that you do not fall" immediately comes to mind and I repent of that! While thinking too highly of myself in regard to this SIN I actually stumbled and fell into it!

So I am not here to judge those of you who curse time to time as my sins are many! But I humbly ask all of you to consider no longer seeking to justify filthy talk because the bible does is not "clear enough" in regard to what a curse word is and isn't. It is honestly breaking my heart.

We can have false convictions Adam. I used to have many legalistic false convictions. I don't care to justify cussing anyway. I could give it up happily, it's not that big of a deal for me. I am not saying your legalistic please don't interpret that.

 

[ABondSlaveofChristJesus]

Originally posted by Scott Bushey
Tim,
OK. Well scripture states that there is such a thing as filthy talk. Peter Cursed. Obviously the term refers to singular words...........do you agree?

Eh, I duno kinda vauge. I duno if cursed means the same as cursed in our tounge. The Bible wasn't written by an american last week.

Anyway, let's just hypothetically say it does. So what?

 

[Scott Bushey]

Filthy talk, cursing are evil and for the believer should be avoided. There is no way that this speaking glorifies God; does it?

 

[pastorway]

[thread edited and reinstated]

 

[ReformedWretch]

Originally posted by ABondSlaveofChristJesus

Originally posted by houseparent

Originally posted by Ianterrell
Everybody,

Let's be clear. "That's just Common sense" isn't a good response to whether or not "cursing" or "swearing" is a sin. Just like any other issue you must be willing to explain your position. Saying we shouldn't use foul speech without seeking the biblical definition of foul speech isn't a defense for the normal evangelical position which says that a small collection of 6-10 words in english constitute the insidious foul speech category.

Sorry Ivan, that's just how I see it. In fact, I am kind of SHOCKED that anyone here would even contenplate the idea of cursing being acceptable before the Lord.

Now, if I am talking to an unregenrate/retrobate person I may realize that I need to explain this to him in such detail. But amongst the brethern I am simply aghast that this is being debated so.

Do you not believe that some things just conflict with our walk without having to run to our bibles and look it up? I mean if you were a liberal I could see this argument but otherwise I just can't. If that causes some of you to question me or my walk with Christ then I am truely sorry.

I am convicted immediately the second I do anything that is out of character with my claiming Christ and I don't seek to go to the scriptures and see if there is anything that could make me feel less guilty before Him for what I did or said.

Just moments ago I said someone was acting like a b**ch and I was immediately ashamed. I only said it to my wife, in anger, because the person I spoke of had just fouled a plan up that me and a co-worker had spent 30 minutes or so figuring out! She did this with an attitude and as if she is in a position of authority that she is not in and displayed a horrible example to several children.

I had a reason to be angry, I even had a reason to speak out against it to my wife in PRIVATE. But I did not have a right to use that term and I would never seek approval within myself to have used it. In fact, I think I stumbled and used it because of this discussion "careful so that you do not fall" immediately comes to mind and I repent of that! While thinking too highly of myself in regard to this SIN I actually stumbled and fell into it!

So I am not here to judge those of you who curse time to time as my sins are many! But I humbly ask all of you to consider no longer seeking to justify filthy talk because the bible does is not "clear enough" in regard to what a curse word is and isn't. It is honestly breaking my heart.

We can have false convictions Adam. I used to have many legalistic false convictions. I don't care to justify cussing anyway. I could give it up happily, it's not that big of a deal for me. I am not saying your legalistic please don't interpret that.

Ok, then I guess I would just ask if you have prayed much about it? If so, you haven't felt convicted in prayer that it's wrong?

What about cursing in prayer? Telling Jesus how much he means to you using curse words to emphasize. I am being serious here too.

Just curious if you (or whomever) thinks that would be wrong? If so, why?