Hello.
I want to try to de-mythologise the Nephilim for you, explaining who they are. This topic has been very dear to me for many years, and I studied it quit a bit. At the same time it was very nagging and provoking, since I didn't like any of the explanations given which are currently considered the "mainstream" in Christian circles.
But so it was, in the lovely providence of God, that I came across a take on the subject which I found very interesting and intriguing. It happened by reading some statements by our puritan divine, Thomas Goodwin. I'll quote him later. But now let me start to give you the whole idea.
There was a divine, a contemporary of Thomas Goodwin, well-known among the puritans, by the name of Joseph Mede, who wanted to find out by what term hell was being known in Old Testament times, specifically before the captivity of Babylon. He realised, of course, that hell in the New Testament was presented as the anti-type of at least two stories in the Old Testament. The first idea of hell that we find in the New Testament is pictured in the Revelation of St. John as the Lake of Fire. This, according to our learned author, is very likely pointing back to the type in the destruction of the cities of Sodom and Gomorra, which were placed by the lake, the Dead Sea.
The second prominent idea of hell in our New Testament is of course known by the very name it bears, which is the greek Gehenna, which we translate as hell. Now Gehenna is the greek form of the hebrew Valley of Hinnom, where in Old Testament times the children of Israel sacrificed and burned their children to Moloch. So the New Testament itself already recognizes that God pictured out something greater by that abomination and disgrace that happened in that place before.
But now it gets interesting. Our author realised that after the Babylonian Captivity, these things connected with the Valley of Hinnom were a picture and foretaste to the people of that ultimate place of the damned. But then he wanted to know if there was another idea of hell already in the minds of the people before the time of the Babylonian Captivity. In other words, he asked the question: what is the most ancient name or idea of hell that we find in the Old Testament itself?
And here is his answer. According to the judgment of Mede, the most ancient name of the place of the damned in the Old Testament is this: the place of the Rephaim. Hell, from the most ancient times, was known as the place where the Rephaim reside.
Now here, if you are familiar with some of the exegetical difficulties regarding all of this topic, I must make some observations. For you probably wonder that the topic bears the name Nephilim, and now I am writing about Rephaim. So let me explain myself. I will take as a guide and help the Greek Translation of the Torah, the so-called Septuagint. And so did Mede.
You must understand that the Greek Translation of the Torah translates three different terms by the word giants (greek: gigantes). The terms are, 1) Nephilim, 2) Rephaim, and 3) Gibborim. All three hebrew terms are translated by the Greek word giants. Now as a side-note, this word actually has nothing to do with physical size, but it bears the meaning of "earth-born". So keep that in mind for now.
Because I don't want to base this whole argument by the authority of a mere translation, let me quickly prove that indeed these three terms thus translated as "giants" by the Septuagint are indeed directly related one to another:
1) The Emim lived there formerly, a people as great, numerous, and tall as the Anakim. ;Like the Anakim, they are also regarded as Rephaim, but the Moabites call them Emim. (Deut 2:10-11)
2) There also we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak are part of the Nephilim); and we became like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight. (Num 13:33)
3) The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. (Gen 6:4)
In 1) you see the Anakim referred to as Rephaim. In 2) these same Anakim (sons of Anak) are related to the Nephilim. And in 3) the Nephilim are defined as the mighty men (hebrew: Gibborim) of old. So there you have the direct relation of these three terms. They seem interchangeable, and so the Septuagint translators regarded them, too.
And now here is the argument from the author, he does that by commenting on a passage in the Proverbs, Chapter 21 Verse 16, here's the Verse:
A man who wanders from the way of understanding
Will rest in the assembly of the dead [hebrew: Rephaim].
Joseph Mede notes that a lot of translations translate the term Rephaim simply as dead. Our modern bible translations do the same. But he suggests that this is wrong, and that the word Rephaim actually doesn't mean dead, strictly speaking. He therefore goes on by recommending the Greek renderring of that place, giving credit to the more ancient translation, which simply reads:
A man who wanders from the way of understanding
Will rest in the assembly of the giants.
Now, since we saw that the giants are actually not only Rephaim, but also Nephilim and Gibborim, this is the conclusion that Joseph Mede makes out of all of that: The giants were those mighty men (note again, all of that has nothing to do with physical size) before the flood, because of whom the wickedness of mankind grew heavily upon the earth. These all were flushed by Noahs flood. And because there was such a huge amount of them at once carried into the pit, therefore the pit itself bore the name of those very men who were cast there. So that, according to the passage out of Proverbs, being at the assembly of the dead actually means being at the assembly of the giants, that is, those wicked men who were renown for their wickedness in the days of Noah.
So then, Nephilim (Rephaim, Gibborim) are simply wicked men, very wicked men, indeed the very men Noah preached unto when the ark was being prepared. These were the spirits in prison, of whom Peter spoke. And hell itself bore their name, because it was occupied by them especially and firstly, the first-born of hell so to say. And so, in the end, just as we have a historical type of the Lake of Fire in Sodom and Gomorra, and a type of Gehenna in the Valley of Hinnom, so we have a type of the assembly of the Rephaim in these men, whom Noahs flood swept away.
I don't know about you, but I find this very interesting. And so I thought I share that idea right here, as my first thread on this forum. Maybe there are questions and so we can have some kind of discussion. I understand that at first sight this might be a lot, I tried to make and state it as simply as I could. But maybe you need to read through the whole argument several times to get it, if you heard it for the very first time and are not that familiar with the language.
I'll leave two quotes of Thomas Goodwin below, and the original discussion of Joseph Mede.
Thank you and God bless,
Michael
Goodwins quotes:
It is an excellent observation that a late critic hath made: that in the Old Testament, especially in the book of Proverbs, where hell is mentioned or spoken of, as it is often, the word in the Hebrew signifies the Place of the Giants. ‘They shall go down into hell,’ that is, to the place of the giants. That was the term that the Jews did anciently give to hell. What is the meaning of that? You know that the giants of the old world were the eminent, grand wicked men. Gen. 6:5, ‘The wickedness of man was great upon earth.’ And he saith there were giants that did corrupt their ways before him; and the earth was filled with violence. Now, the flood came and swept all these giants away, and carried them all to hell. And because such a cluster of them went there all at once, hell had its name from thence; and whoever went to hell, though he were a Jew, though he were never so strict, if unregenerate he went to the place of the giants, he went among wicked men; and so they are to be reckoned here. Nay, the gospel speaks higher words of hell, as in relation to whom wicked men shall be gathered, Matt. 25:41. He speaks to all unregenerate men, that shall be found so at the latter day, that died in that estate, though there be never so many sizes of them, Go into the fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. They are not only gathered to the giants, but they are gathered to their great prince, Satan. They walked according to the prince of the air, and they shall go to hell, where the prince of the fire is, when he is there—a poor prince, when he is there. And God will bring forth men so, though they walk among the drove of his children in profession now, yet if they walk in by-lanes, God will rank them at the latter day, yea, often in this world, with the workers of iniquity. In Ps. 125:5, ‘As to such as turn aside to their crooked ways,’ that walk in by-lanes of sin, ‘the Lord shall lead them forth with the workers of iniquity.’ They do walk after them here before God, and God will manifest so much before he hath done. The Lord, saith he, shall lead them forth with the workers of iniquity.
Thomas Goodwin, The Works of Thomas Goodwin, vol. 2 (Edinburgh: James Nichol, 1861), 73–74.
For this serves that notion of Mr Mede,* that in the Old Testament, the first and most ancient phrase to express going to hell was to go to the company of the giants; so he renders it of many places of the Proverbs: Prov. 9:18, ‘He that goes into the strange woman knows not (or considers not) that the giants are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell;’ and Prov. 21:16, ‘The man that wandereth out of his way shall remain in the congregation of the dead.’ The original is rephaim, of the giants. This Alapide and others have taken notice of also. The giants were those men eminently wicked, that lived afore the flood, upon whom the flood came and swept them to hell; for by reason of them ‘the iniquity of the earth was great,’ Gen. 6. And because hell had a flush of them, and was replenished at once with such a numerous addition, hence from their company it bore the name of the place of the giants. Yea, and they were those of whom Peter instanceth in, when he speaks of ‘the spirits in prison,’ or in hell, to whom in the ministry of Noah Christ preached, 1 Pet. 3:20. So then, for wicked men to be gathered to their fathers (namely, in wickedness), was all one as to go to the giants; that is, eminently wicked, who were men of renown for wickedness.
Thomas Goodwin, The Works of Thomas Goodwin, vol. 7 (Edinburgh: James Nichol, 1863), 351.
Medes discussion:
I want to try to de-mythologise the Nephilim for you, explaining who they are. This topic has been very dear to me for many years, and I studied it quit a bit. At the same time it was very nagging and provoking, since I didn't like any of the explanations given which are currently considered the "mainstream" in Christian circles.
But so it was, in the lovely providence of God, that I came across a take on the subject which I found very interesting and intriguing. It happened by reading some statements by our puritan divine, Thomas Goodwin. I'll quote him later. But now let me start to give you the whole idea.
There was a divine, a contemporary of Thomas Goodwin, well-known among the puritans, by the name of Joseph Mede, who wanted to find out by what term hell was being known in Old Testament times, specifically before the captivity of Babylon. He realised, of course, that hell in the New Testament was presented as the anti-type of at least two stories in the Old Testament. The first idea of hell that we find in the New Testament is pictured in the Revelation of St. John as the Lake of Fire. This, according to our learned author, is very likely pointing back to the type in the destruction of the cities of Sodom and Gomorra, which were placed by the lake, the Dead Sea.
The second prominent idea of hell in our New Testament is of course known by the very name it bears, which is the greek Gehenna, which we translate as hell. Now Gehenna is the greek form of the hebrew Valley of Hinnom, where in Old Testament times the children of Israel sacrificed and burned their children to Moloch. So the New Testament itself already recognizes that God pictured out something greater by that abomination and disgrace that happened in that place before.
But now it gets interesting. Our author realised that after the Babylonian Captivity, these things connected with the Valley of Hinnom were a picture and foretaste to the people of that ultimate place of the damned. But then he wanted to know if there was another idea of hell already in the minds of the people before the time of the Babylonian Captivity. In other words, he asked the question: what is the most ancient name or idea of hell that we find in the Old Testament itself?
And here is his answer. According to the judgment of Mede, the most ancient name of the place of the damned in the Old Testament is this: the place of the Rephaim. Hell, from the most ancient times, was known as the place where the Rephaim reside.
Now here, if you are familiar with some of the exegetical difficulties regarding all of this topic, I must make some observations. For you probably wonder that the topic bears the name Nephilim, and now I am writing about Rephaim. So let me explain myself. I will take as a guide and help the Greek Translation of the Torah, the so-called Septuagint. And so did Mede.
You must understand that the Greek Translation of the Torah translates three different terms by the word giants (greek: gigantes). The terms are, 1) Nephilim, 2) Rephaim, and 3) Gibborim. All three hebrew terms are translated by the Greek word giants. Now as a side-note, this word actually has nothing to do with physical size, but it bears the meaning of "earth-born". So keep that in mind for now.
Because I don't want to base this whole argument by the authority of a mere translation, let me quickly prove that indeed these three terms thus translated as "giants" by the Septuagint are indeed directly related one to another:
1) The Emim lived there formerly, a people as great, numerous, and tall as the Anakim. ;Like the Anakim, they are also regarded as Rephaim, but the Moabites call them Emim. (Deut 2:10-11)
2) There also we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak are part of the Nephilim); and we became like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight. (Num 13:33)
3) The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. (Gen 6:4)
In 1) you see the Anakim referred to as Rephaim. In 2) these same Anakim (sons of Anak) are related to the Nephilim. And in 3) the Nephilim are defined as the mighty men (hebrew: Gibborim) of old. So there you have the direct relation of these three terms. They seem interchangeable, and so the Septuagint translators regarded them, too.
And now here is the argument from the author, he does that by commenting on a passage in the Proverbs, Chapter 21 Verse 16, here's the Verse:
A man who wanders from the way of understanding
Will rest in the assembly of the dead [hebrew: Rephaim].
Joseph Mede notes that a lot of translations translate the term Rephaim simply as dead. Our modern bible translations do the same. But he suggests that this is wrong, and that the word Rephaim actually doesn't mean dead, strictly speaking. He therefore goes on by recommending the Greek renderring of that place, giving credit to the more ancient translation, which simply reads:
A man who wanders from the way of understanding
Will rest in the assembly of the giants.
Now, since we saw that the giants are actually not only Rephaim, but also Nephilim and Gibborim, this is the conclusion that Joseph Mede makes out of all of that: The giants were those mighty men (note again, all of that has nothing to do with physical size) before the flood, because of whom the wickedness of mankind grew heavily upon the earth. These all were flushed by Noahs flood. And because there was such a huge amount of them at once carried into the pit, therefore the pit itself bore the name of those very men who were cast there. So that, according to the passage out of Proverbs, being at the assembly of the dead actually means being at the assembly of the giants, that is, those wicked men who were renown for their wickedness in the days of Noah.
So then, Nephilim (Rephaim, Gibborim) are simply wicked men, very wicked men, indeed the very men Noah preached unto when the ark was being prepared. These were the spirits in prison, of whom Peter spoke. And hell itself bore their name, because it was occupied by them especially and firstly, the first-born of hell so to say. And so, in the end, just as we have a historical type of the Lake of Fire in Sodom and Gomorra, and a type of Gehenna in the Valley of Hinnom, so we have a type of the assembly of the Rephaim in these men, whom Noahs flood swept away.
I don't know about you, but I find this very interesting. And so I thought I share that idea right here, as my first thread on this forum. Maybe there are questions and so we can have some kind of discussion. I understand that at first sight this might be a lot, I tried to make and state it as simply as I could. But maybe you need to read through the whole argument several times to get it, if you heard it for the very first time and are not that familiar with the language.
I'll leave two quotes of Thomas Goodwin below, and the original discussion of Joseph Mede.
Thank you and God bless,
Michael
Goodwins quotes:
It is an excellent observation that a late critic hath made: that in the Old Testament, especially in the book of Proverbs, where hell is mentioned or spoken of, as it is often, the word in the Hebrew signifies the Place of the Giants. ‘They shall go down into hell,’ that is, to the place of the giants. That was the term that the Jews did anciently give to hell. What is the meaning of that? You know that the giants of the old world were the eminent, grand wicked men. Gen. 6:5, ‘The wickedness of man was great upon earth.’ And he saith there were giants that did corrupt their ways before him; and the earth was filled with violence. Now, the flood came and swept all these giants away, and carried them all to hell. And because such a cluster of them went there all at once, hell had its name from thence; and whoever went to hell, though he were a Jew, though he were never so strict, if unregenerate he went to the place of the giants, he went among wicked men; and so they are to be reckoned here. Nay, the gospel speaks higher words of hell, as in relation to whom wicked men shall be gathered, Matt. 25:41. He speaks to all unregenerate men, that shall be found so at the latter day, that died in that estate, though there be never so many sizes of them, Go into the fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. They are not only gathered to the giants, but they are gathered to their great prince, Satan. They walked according to the prince of the air, and they shall go to hell, where the prince of the fire is, when he is there—a poor prince, when he is there. And God will bring forth men so, though they walk among the drove of his children in profession now, yet if they walk in by-lanes, God will rank them at the latter day, yea, often in this world, with the workers of iniquity. In Ps. 125:5, ‘As to such as turn aside to their crooked ways,’ that walk in by-lanes of sin, ‘the Lord shall lead them forth with the workers of iniquity.’ They do walk after them here before God, and God will manifest so much before he hath done. The Lord, saith he, shall lead them forth with the workers of iniquity.
Thomas Goodwin, The Works of Thomas Goodwin, vol. 2 (Edinburgh: James Nichol, 1861), 73–74.
For this serves that notion of Mr Mede,* that in the Old Testament, the first and most ancient phrase to express going to hell was to go to the company of the giants; so he renders it of many places of the Proverbs: Prov. 9:18, ‘He that goes into the strange woman knows not (or considers not) that the giants are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell;’ and Prov. 21:16, ‘The man that wandereth out of his way shall remain in the congregation of the dead.’ The original is rephaim, of the giants. This Alapide and others have taken notice of also. The giants were those men eminently wicked, that lived afore the flood, upon whom the flood came and swept them to hell; for by reason of them ‘the iniquity of the earth was great,’ Gen. 6. And because hell had a flush of them, and was replenished at once with such a numerous addition, hence from their company it bore the name of the place of the giants. Yea, and they were those of whom Peter instanceth in, when he speaks of ‘the spirits in prison,’ or in hell, to whom in the ministry of Noah Christ preached, 1 Pet. 3:20. So then, for wicked men to be gathered to their fathers (namely, in wickedness), was all one as to go to the giants; that is, eminently wicked, who were men of renown for wickedness.
Thomas Goodwin, The Works of Thomas Goodwin, vol. 7 (Edinburgh: James Nichol, 1863), 351.
Medes discussion:
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