Did you "cause" Jesus to save you when you believed?

[earl40]

This question came to me as I am speaking to those that deny the L in TULIP.

This will be interesting to see what they say....I feel bad doing this....sort of.

 

[Michael]

I'll put the Arminian hat on for you.

No, you don't "cause" Jesus to save you. You accept his offer. Since he made the offer first the "cause" of salvation is all in him. If anything, you finish his purpose or cause.

 

[SolaScriptura]

I have a feeling that what will be involved here is a differing use of the word "cause."

What they may say is that they "caused" Jesus to save them in the sense that by confessing faith in Christ, calling on the name of the Lord, etc., they met the Lord's "requirement" for salvation, and as such He gave them what He said he would give to those who met his "requirement" of faith in Christ.

I don't know, just guessing.

 

[earl40]

I'll put the Arminian hat on for you.

No, you don't "cause" Jesus to save you. You accept his offer. Since he made the offer first the "cause" of salvation is all in him. If anything, you finish his purpose or cause.

OK.

Would that "acceptance" be like grabbing Him, like a piece of meat, out of the freezer? Or do you remember when you "decided" to believe in Him while you didn't currently believe in Him?

 

[jandrusk]

How can the creature cause something from the creators providence? Not at all, it has to do with effectual calling. Christ effectually calls the elect and by doing so they are drawn to Christ and and effectually accept the offer of the gospel.

ESV: John 15:16. "You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you."

 

[earl40]

I have a feeling that what will be involved here is a differing use of the word "cause."

What they may say is that they "caused" Jesus to save them in the sense that by confessing faith in Christ, calling on the name of the Lord, etc., they met the Lord's "requirement" for salvation, and as such He gave them what He said he would give to those who met his "requirement" of faith in Christ.

I don't know, just guessing.

"They met" is a good point in that this does deny Ep. 2 in that faith is not of themselves. Of course they deny the "that" is "faith".

---------- Post added at 10:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:58 PM ----------

How can the creature cause something from the creators providence? Not at all, it has to do with effectual calling. Christ effectually calls the elect and by doing so they are drawn to Christ and and effectually accept the offer of the gospel.

ESV: John 15:16. "You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you."

Of course they say Jesus was simply speaking to the Apostles here.

 

[TeachingTulip]

This question came to me as I am speaking to those that deny the L in TULIP.

This will be interesting to see what they say....I feel bad doing this....sort of.

Don't feel bad, Earl.

It is a question that should be asked more often!

 

[Michael]

Would that "acceptance" be like grabbing Him, like a piece of meat, out of the freezer? Or do you remember when you "decided" to believe in Him while you didn't currently believe in Him?

Arminian: I remember exactly when I decided to believe in Christ.

PS Did you move, Earl? Thought you lived up here in GA...

 

[TeachingTulip]

I have a feeling that what will be involved here is a differing use of the word "cause."

Maybe, but I think answers will hinge upon understanding of the concept of "offer."

That usage of language, "offero," in the Canons of Dordt, defines a "proclamation!"

Not an optional choice.

The Covenant of Grace is the working of the sovereign will of God . . . and in no way is the Covenant of Grace conditional or caused by the sinful creature.

The Covenant of Grace was established between Father and Son to save an undeserving people; thus the Covenant of Grace was performed and achieved by Triune God, alone.

Solus Christus!

Sola Gratia!

Sola Deo Gloria!

 

[Pergamum]

Faith and repentance were gifts that Christ purchased on the Cross for His Elect.

All those the Father chose, and the Son died for, the Holy Spirit will give the New birth to at their appointed time.

 

[earl40]

Would that "acceptance" be like grabbing Him, like a piece of meat, out of the freezer? Or do you remember when you "decided" to believe in Him while you didn't currently believe in Him?

Arminian: I remember exactly when I decided to believe in Christ.

PS Did you move, Earl? Thought you lived up here in GA...

Do you remember the moment you didn't believe before you believed?

Always here in Casselberry Central Fla. I can not "remember" living anywhere else.

 

[Michael]

Always here in Casselberry Central Fla. I can not "remember" living anywhere else.

My bad.