Does "New Covenant" = "Abrahamic Covenant"?
- Thread starter biblelighthouse
- Start date
- Status
Puritanhead
Puritan Board Professor
Myers
Texas Aggie
Puritan Board Freshman
I see the New Covenant as completely new.... new to us (the gentiles). This is a New Covenant established for the redemption and salvation of the elect from the gentile nations.
The provisions of the covenant are pretty clear as well as God's expectations for the partakers.
The provisions of the covenant are pretty clear as well as God's expectations for the partakers.
biblelighthouse
Puritan Board Junior
"Gods and Generals" is one of the best all-time movies I have ever seen. It nearly brought me to tears. That is the movie that made me fall in love with the historical character of Stonewall Jackson. I LOVE that movie!
Puritanhead
Puritan Board Professor
:bigsmile:
biblelighthouse
Puritan Board Junior
Don't smile so big, Ryan . . . you know Stonewall was a PRESBYTERIAN! So he certainly didn't have any problem with paedobaptism . . .
Nobody is perfect in everything.Originally posted by biblelighthouse
Don't smile so big, Ryan . . . you know Stonewall was a PRESBYTERIAN! So he certainly didn't have any problem with paedobaptism . . .
biblelighthouse
Puritan Board Junior
Originally posted by puritancovenanter
Nobody is perfect in everything.Originally posted by biblelighthouse
Don't smile so big, Ryan . . . you know Stonewall was a PRESBYTERIAN! So he certainly didn't have any problem with paedobaptism . . .
I know, but I still think you and Ryan are ok anyway.
:bigsmile:
Steve Owen
Puritan Board Sophomore
Hello Wayne,
Thank you or that, Wayne, but I don't think it will quite do, becase Paul also, in Gal 4:21ff refers only to two covenants, which are clearly the Mosaic ('Mt Sinai') and the New. We are urged to 'Cast out the bond woman and her son' (v30 ); in other words, to forsake the Mosaic Covenant and concentrate on the New.
To look for a single linear progression of the covenants does not therefore seem to work. I suggest that we need to look rather at three sets of covenants:-
1. The Covenants of Works and Grace. These covenants were made with a federal Head, who acted on behalf of all his seed.
2. The Covenants of Promise (Eph 2:12 ).. These are the 'Adamic' covenant of Gen 3:15 & 21, the Noahic, the Abrahamic and the Davidic. These were made with individuals and their seed; not their physical descendants but their spiritual offspring (Isaiah 55:3; Gal 3:7 ). The promise is that of Christ and the New Covenant. These covenants are not the New Covenant, but promises, foreshadowings and adumbrations of it (Luke 1:69-70; Rom 1:1-3; Col 1:26-27 ). Each Covenant of promise adds to the information of the previous one. When the prophet Abel (Luke 11:50-51 ) sacrificed the finest lamb of his flock, he was looking forward by faith to the Seed promised in Gen 3:15 and the covering of sin foreshadowed in Gen 3:21; in other words to that first Covenant of promise revealed in the garden which spoke of the Covenant of Grace made in eternity, and the coming New Covenant.
3. The 'Old' and New Covenants. These are made with a people through a mediator. The OC was made with the physical descendants of the Patriarchs (the 'Children of Israel'); the NC was made with their spiritual descendants. The whole purpose of the OC was to produce a people amongst whom the Messiah could be born. Having served its purpose it has now passed away (Heb 8:13 ). The New Covenant is revealed to be none other than the realization in time of the Covenant of Grace, therefore it is called the Everlasting Covenant (Heb 13:20 ).
Therefore it can be said that there is but one covenant by which God saves His elect. Determined in eternity (Eph 1:3ff), foreshadowed to the saints (John 8:56; 1Peter 1:10-12 ) and revealed in due time (Rom 3:21-22 etc) it is of Christ from first to last, 'That in all things He might have the preeminence' (Col 1:18 ).
I'll be interested to get everyone's reaction to all this. Time has prevented me from fleshing it out as I should.
Grace & Peace,
Martin
Thank you or that, Wayne, but I don't think it will quite do, becase Paul also, in Gal 4:21ff refers only to two covenants, which are clearly the Mosaic ('Mt Sinai') and the New. We are urged to 'Cast out the bond woman and her son' (v30 ); in other words, to forsake the Mosaic Covenant and concentrate on the New.
To look for a single linear progression of the covenants does not therefore seem to work. I suggest that we need to look rather at three sets of covenants:-
1. The Covenants of Works and Grace. These covenants were made with a federal Head, who acted on behalf of all his seed.
2. The Covenants of Promise (Eph 2:12 ).. These are the 'Adamic' covenant of Gen 3:15 & 21, the Noahic, the Abrahamic and the Davidic. These were made with individuals and their seed; not their physical descendants but their spiritual offspring (Isaiah 55:3; Gal 3:7 ). The promise is that of Christ and the New Covenant. These covenants are not the New Covenant, but promises, foreshadowings and adumbrations of it (Luke 1:69-70; Rom 1:1-3; Col 1:26-27 ). Each Covenant of promise adds to the information of the previous one. When the prophet Abel (Luke 11:50-51 ) sacrificed the finest lamb of his flock, he was looking forward by faith to the Seed promised in Gen 3:15 and the covering of sin foreshadowed in Gen 3:21; in other words to that first Covenant of promise revealed in the garden which spoke of the Covenant of Grace made in eternity, and the coming New Covenant.
3. The 'Old' and New Covenants. These are made with a people through a mediator. The OC was made with the physical descendants of the Patriarchs (the 'Children of Israel'); the NC was made with their spiritual descendants. The whole purpose of the OC was to produce a people amongst whom the Messiah could be born. Having served its purpose it has now passed away (Heb 8:13 ). The New Covenant is revealed to be none other than the realization in time of the Covenant of Grace, therefore it is called the Everlasting Covenant (Heb 13:20 ).
Therefore it can be said that there is but one covenant by which God saves His elect. Determined in eternity (Eph 1:3ff), foreshadowed to the saints (John 8:56; 1Peter 1:10-12 ) and revealed in due time (Rom 3:21-22 etc) it is of Christ from first to last, 'That in all things He might have the preeminence' (Col 1:18 ).
I'll be interested to get everyone's reaction to all this. Time has prevented me from fleshing it out as I should.
Grace & Peace,
Martin
I think Peter Toon discussing Owen would agree somewhat with what you are saying Martin.
WrittenFromUtopia
Puritan Board Graduate
The New Covenant and the Abrahamic Covenant are both administrations of the Covenant of Grace, but they are not the same covenant.
WrittenFromUtopia
Puritan Board Graduate
I voted option #3 by the way.
VirginiaHuguenot
Puritanboard Librarian
- Status
