Doug Wilson on Baptism

[CharlieJ]

OK, so I finally found a book on paedobaptism that made a lot of sense to me: To a Thousand Generations by Doug Wilson. Unfortunately, I've come to find out that Doug is something of a Presbyterian arch-fiend, similar to the Joker or Riddler. So, is there anything in that book that would be outside of "mainline" Reformed thought?

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I wouldn't call him an arch fiend. As FV-friendly goes, he doesn't walk off cliffs in the same way as some of the other proponents do. I think there's a strange lack of Confessional integrity when he's tried to defend statements made by some former PCA pastors as if they were accidentally un-Confessional. I also think his (and others') ideas that the Confession goes a certain distance on the nature of the Sacraments and Union with Christ but that the Bible "fills it out" is filled with difficulties. Primarily, the things he says others are fleshing out are things that the Confession explicitly repudiates.

Let me just say that you can find better resources than Wilson on this subject. It is true that some Presbyterians have neglected hearth and home and the Covenantal responsibility that parent has for child. The cure for neglect is not a hard tack in the opposite direction where faithful parenting becomes a downpayment on a saved child. Nothing is ever quite expressed that way but all the subtlety and caution that goes with how we ought to understand election, the Covenant, and Sacraments is sometimes overshadowed by ideas that are easily confused. Of course, Wilson can always jump back over that line when accused that his language sounds un-Confessional but that doesn't prevent the ignorant and unstable from being led astray by reading his books.

Primarily, when it comes to the Confessional understanding of the issue, Wilson and those of various shades of FV want to make Baptism be the instrument for union with Christ. This is the place where neglect in one area has caused such a hard jerk to the opposite extreme that some drove off the cliff and become almost Romish in their doctrines. They want to be able to declare to their kids and to others: You're elect! Thus, they say that those that are Baptized are united to Christ in some sense. Union with Christ is conditional then upon Covenantal faithfulness: parents do your duty and members make sure you're faithful! If you're not then you will fall out of the Covenant, lose union with Christ (that you had in some sense), and you will no longer be elect.

The Reformed position is that the graces conferred by baptism only belong to those elect. Nobody is united to Christ unless he is elect and faith (not baptism) is the instrument of our justification. Baptism is a ministerial announcement and, though we benefit greatly from its graces, we ought not turn it into more than it is intended. We must preserve the unique benefits that flow from vital union with Christ that the elect alone enjoy. If we do not then we end up blending the things hidden with the things revealed. We end up thinking that men affect God's eternal pleasure for His elect. We end up thinking that we somehow must add our faithfulness to the equation of God's grace rather than simply clinging to Christ in simple faith and allowing the graces of justification to flow out into our sanctification.

The sad truth is that Wilson and others were trying to recover a healthy Covenantal understanding of their kids but, in their hubris, ignored the rich Reformed piety that already existed in the Catechisms and elsewhere that were never the root of the decline. By beating their own path, they ended up losing the Gospel itself. Perhaps Wilson hasn't gone as far as others but I'm convinced his carelessness with some of these truths has led others astray. True evangelical faith is that God justifies the un-Godly. Stop, do not pass Go. True evangelical faith is not that God will wait until you have a fully matured and sanctified faith and then justify you on the basis of the vitality and constancy of your faith. True evangelical faith is a simple trust that is given to men by God alone.

 

[CharlieJ]

I suppose why this particular book made more sense to me is because Wilson tried to start from a theology of children and then work to baptism. I've read The Case for Covenantal Infant Baptism and Herman Hanko's book on infant baptism. I'm currently reading Robert Rayburn's.

Wilson's book is from 1996. I don't know if that was before some of the FV problems developed. I would appreciate if anyone who has read it could direct me to some specifically problematic statements. To me, it sounds a lot like Michael Horton (sorry, Mike). I didn't pick up on anything that sounded particularly crazy, but I might not, since I'm Baptist and it all sounds a little strange to me.

 

[greenbaggins]

The very best book is Marcel.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I suppose why this particular book made more sense to me is because Wilson tried to start from a theology of children and then work to baptism. I've read The Case for Covenantal Infant Baptism and Herman Hanko's book on infant baptism. I'm currently reading Robert Rayburn's.

Wilson's book is from 1996. I don't know if that was before some of the FV problems developed. I would appreciate if anyone who has read it could direct me to some specifically problematic statements. To me, it sounds a lot like Michael Horton (sorry, Mike). I didn't pick up on anything that sounded particularly crazy, but I might not, since I'm Baptist and it all sounds a little strange to me.

I haven't read the books but I've read ante-FV Wilson works. He has always been someone I would read with a grain of salt - the type of book that contains some good material but then needs to be filtered through some maturity before presented to some people that might be led into a bad direction.

I don't know that working from children to baptism is the correct way of addressing the issue, especially with Wilson. I've read more than a few books and listened to hours of his material. Wilson tends to conflate wisdom literature into didactic principles. In fact, it is difficult to detect when he's actually used an opinion on how to apply a bit of wisdom literature, converted it into a didactic principle, and then uses that Wilsonian principle as the basis for more development. In other words, I wouldn't be surprised to find an edifice on the theology of children developed by him that is built on all these "principles" that is then used to come at the subject of baptism.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

The very best book is Marcel.

I bought that earlier this summer. It's on my "To read" list.

 

[Archlute]

The very best book is Marcel.

 

[Marrow Man]

The very best book is Marcel.

I tend to agree. However, in his debate with William Shisko, I remember James White referencing Marcel's book and claiming it taught baptismal regeneration, which is a charge that some have leveled against Wilson, I believe.

 

[Archlute]

The very best book is Marcel.

I tend to agree. However, in his debate with William Shisko, I remember James White referencing Marcel's book and claiming it taught baptismal regeneration, which is a charge that some have leveled against Wilson, I believe.

Hmmm. I've read it, and I don't remember anything in it that could be taken as favoring baptismal regeneration.

 

[Marrow Man]

Hmmm. I've read it, and I don't remember anything in it that could be taken as favoring baptismal regeneration.

I've read large chunks of it, but I haven't read it cover to cover. However, I would be inclined to agree, though I could also see how Marcel could make a credobaptist "uncomfortable." I would have to go back and listen to the debate to be able to produce the precise quote, though.

 

[Archlute]

though I could also see how Marcel could make a credobaptist "uncomfortable."

It's not like that would be a "first"

 

[Gage Browning]

Not a Wilson Fan...but

I'm not a huge Wilson Fan, but his book is very good and many folks who are new to the (paedo) side (friends of mine) find it very helpful. Have not read Marcel, but in this instance...I would recommend him.

 

[Christusregnat]

The very best book is Marcel.

I tend to agree. However, in his debate with William Shisko, I remember James White referencing Marcel's book and claiming it taught baptismal regeneration, which is a charge that some have leveled against Wilson, I believe.

Key word: "claiming".

Marcel's book is excellent!

 

[Christusregnat]

OK, so I finally found a book on paedobaptism that made a lot of sense to me: To a Thousand Generations by Doug Wilson. Unfortunately, I've come to find out that Doug is something of a Presbyterian arch-fiend, similar to the Joker or Riddler. So, is there anything in that book that would be outside of "mainline" Reformed thought?

Charlie,

Keep in mind, several of Wilson's books were written before FV. Standing on the Promises is good, and in Easy Chairs Hard Words he specifically repudiates his later FV formulation of apostasy. I'm selling that book if you want it. All that to say, don't judge some of his earlier works by the standard of his later "tossing about with every wind of James Jordan".

Cheers,

 

[brymaes]

For what it's worth, I read To A Thousand Generations several years ago while a Baptist, and it laid the groundwork for my later transition to paedobaptism. I cannot remember anything that would be contrary to the WCF in the book.

 

[Kevin]

Marcel may be a better theologian, but I would still give Wilson to a questioning baptist.

in my opinion Wilson is more easily understood by a modern evangelical. That said Marcel lays out a better case, it is just more dificult for the average 40 days of whatever evangelical christian.