East Iowa Presbytery open to gay, lesbian ministers

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In the words of Gilbert Godfried," Oh now there's a surprise! I think I'm gonna have a heart attack and die from that surprise!" :rolleyes:
 
amendment 08b appears to have not gathered enough support from the Presbyteries to amend to eliminate the fidelity and chastity sections from their BCO. I have been keeping up with it at the Layman.
 
It is sad to see compromise after compromise with the world by people who say they are Christians, especially leadership.
 
For decades I have been hearing that "their are still good people working in the PCUSA trying to stand up for the truth." Well now it's time for all of them to leave and shake off their shoes on the way out. Actually it's way past time.
 
I thought it was mathematically impossible now for the measure to pass. Too many presbyteries have already voted no.
 
I thought it was mathematically impossible now for the measure to pass. Too many presbyteries have already voted no.

It doesn't matter what the rules are if they can be safely ignored. A major PCUSA church in Arkansas just ordained an open and out guy as deacon.
 
Yes, thanks the PC(USA) churches in Arkansas, our presbytery gained a church planter. A Presbyterian pastor from Belize came to the U.S., moved to Arkansas (Little Rock area) and visited a PC(USA) church there. He was so shocked by the liberalism he found that he sought out a ARP church and the rest is history...

Oh, yeah, our presbytery had been praying for the Lord to send us a bilingual man to help with an Hispanic work, so you gotta admit that's kinda cool.
 
Presbytery of the Pacific also approved gay ordination

I was a commissioner to the presbytery meeting at Bel Air Presbyterian Church in Los Angeles on May 12 where the Presbytery of the Pacific also approved Amendment B:

http://www.presbyteryofthepacific.org/meetings/docs-may09/tda-may09.pdf

:barfy::(:barfy:

It was a very long and exhausting day, including having to go through a 2 1/2 hour "listening session" where those of us who are still obedient followers of Christ had to listen to homosexual activists and their PCUSA supporters tell us why PCUSA has to ordain homosexuals and why their victory is inevitable and we should just agree to it.

The latest "scriptural" argument they are now trotting out asserts that Abraham was the first person in Scripture "ordained" by God, and since his "ordination" preceded the giving of the Law, that therefore ordination is superior to Scripture. Yeah, I know it makes no sense (especially since Abraham was told by God that He was going to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, which means that God's condemnation of homosexuality also "preceded the giving of the Law"), but that is the kind of reasoning that has sway in PCUSA.

The vote itself was academic, because Amendment B has already been defeated nationally, although by a much narrower margin than prior attempts to validate homosexual clergy. The vote in presbytery was 100-90 in favor of the amendment (plus 3 abstentions, which are counted as no votes, technically making the final tally 100-93). There was some thought that some of those who could have shown up and opposed Amendment B did not do so, perhaps because they thought it didn't count any more or are just sick of dealing with the homosexuality issue over and over again. However, it now lets the homosexuals say that our presbytery is in favor of homosexual ordination and that will encourage further rebellious ordination of homosexuals as well as the continued unlawful performance of same-sex blessings.

I'd ask PB members to please pray for us who are still in the "faithful remnant." There are a lot of faithful Christians in PCUSA, but the liberals control the politics in much of the denomination, even as they are simultanously destroying it. The large churches in our presbytery are conservative and evangelical, but are outnumbered by all the dying churches with 75 or less members that make up a disproportionate percentage of the entire vote.

Another item on the presbytery agenda was this cheery presentation:

2009 General Mission Budget

The General Mission Council reluctantly presented
the General Mission Budget for 2009. The pledges
and expected income are down over $100,000
from two years ago so that a number of projects
had to be cut. As it stands now, the budget that was
passed contains no funding for the campus ministry
at UCLA, only a token amount for the campus
ministry at USC, and practically no support for the
Hispanic ministries at Fuente De Vida, Bethesda,
and the new church development in Wilmington. In
addition, the approved budget suspends the 2%
salary increases previously approved for the
Presbytery staff, and shifts 5% of undesignated
giving from the General Assembly to the Presbytery.
Both General Mission Council Chairperson, Sandra
Mader, and Administrative Committee Chairperson,
Tom Fleming spoke about the number of churches
in the Presbytery that do not support the work of
the Presbytery. Some make no pledge to mission
work beyond their community, and some designate
giving to the exclusion of the Presbytery. Council
members will be contacting the non-supporting
churches to try to recapture interest in and support
of the work of the Presbytery.

Just amazing how no one can connect the dots.
 
For decades I have been hearing that "their are still good people working in the PCUSA trying to stand up for the truth." Well now it's time for all of them to leave and shake off their shoes on the way out. Actually it's way past time.

The measure was not passed. My presbytery is faithful to the gospel. I think we should be cautious in making blanket pronouncements for others.
 
For decades I have been hearing that "their are still good people working in the PCUSA trying to stand up for the truth." Well now it's time for all of them to leave and shake off their shoes on the way out. Actually it's way past time.

The measure was not passed. My presbytery is faithful to the gospel. I think we should be cautious in making blanket pronouncements for others.

The sad fact is that this fight is going to spread throughout the church, no matter how safe you think you may be. Even if they do not try to take over your denomination, they will try to get laws passed to minimize your religious freedom. That's their goal, to either control the churches or have them declared contrary to the public good.

If you live in California and made a donation to Proposition 8 to protect traditional marriage, you may already be feeling the attacks. The State of California kept track of all donations and made the names and addresses of donors public. The mainstream media made a point of publishing that information to "out" supporters of traditional marriage. As a resuilt, homosexual activists are now using that information to target individuals and businesses, either to have individual donors lose their jobs or put businesses out of business that either supported the measure or refuse to fire employees that did. This includes circulating lists of contributors and information on how to get to their jobs and homes so they can be harassed. See:

Proposition 8 Contributions

Prop 8 Donors: Find Out Who Backed California's Anti-Gay Marriage Amendment

eightmaps

Frankly, in certain parts of this country there is already a climate of intimidation and fear. Whether that had an impact on people who did not show up for our presbytery vote, I don't know.
 
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None of us can forget (and I saw this secularly in Colorado in the late 80's) that the enemy here is well funded, well organized, strident, heavily supported by the media, vicious, and unrelenting. As Jim puts it so well, when we "conservative church" types wake up tomorrow or the day after, the battle will be within OUR walls, and likely in the US the force of government will be used to back the push of the homosexual agenda. How eerie to see names of individual low-sum contributors to the Prop 8 battle show up with addresses on a google map.
 
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