Gay Presbyterians

[Bradley Arakelian]

The Permanent Judicial Commission of the Synod of the Covenant of the Presbyterian Church (USA) has reversed the decision by the Permanent Judicial Commission of the Presbytery of Cincinnatti to reprimand the Rev. Stephen Van Kuiken for conducting same-sex marriages. A synod of the mainline Presbyterian denomination has now come out on record as favouring the violation of Ohio state law (gay marriage is illegal there).
I welcome comments about this tragic (but expected) development, especially from members of PCA or OPC congregations in Ohio. Thank you.

 

[Craig]

Not surprised....I'm from Ohio...live in Michigan...my brother still lives in Ohio and is a member of the PCA church there.

What would an OPCer or a PCAer say? Glad Machen was excomunicated, or; glad we broke of from em!

Stuff like this comes up when people don't take their bible or confession seriously...they take their cues from the world.

 

[Bradley Arakelian]

Thank you, Craig, for your interesting (and true) response. This is not an issue that will go away. We shall hear more of this in the future. The ordination of promiscuous homosexuals in the mainline Presbyterian church is inevitable, if not imminent. Yes, Machen was right, and this is the fruit of Auburn Affirmationism.

 

[FrozenChosen]

My Sociology teacher here at Auburn is a member of the PCUSA, but his church is going against the grain and is part of the confessing movement trying to get these things turned over.

I'm interested to see what happens to that branch of the PCUSA. Perhaps it will break off and merge with the PCA or something.

And this is very sad as well.

And pooh on that Auburn Affirmationism junk. I feel bad for going to a university that shares the name.

 

[Bradley Arakelian]

Thank you, Mr. Pope, for your interesting response. A schism in the mainline Presbyterian church is inevitable, but there exists [i:b51887d225]no[/i:b51887d225] possibility that the congregations of the Confessing Church Movement will join the PCA. Nor would I wish to see them become a part of us. Their superficial theology, which still embraces the feminism of the Presbyterian Church (USA), will not permit them to countenance the notion of renouncing women officers. Moreover, I have no faith that these churches will be able to effect any change in their denomination. Some of these churches will undoubtedly join the Evangelical Presbyterian Church (as some already have).

 

[FrozenChosen]

Mr. Arakelian,

Honestly, I do not know much about the PCUSA and what's going on in it, other than "Whoa it's liberal!"

 

[Scott Bushey]

BA Writes:
"The ordination of promiscuous homosexuals in the mainline Presbyterian church is inevitable, if not imminent. "

I believe some dilineation needs to be drawn here. First of all, the PCUSA is NOT "mainline". In fact, I will say that the PCUSA and churches like it are full apostate groups. This is not a difficult doctrine; in fact it is crystal clear in the scriptures. There is no ambiguosity! Organizations whom adopt this calamity KNOW deep down that they are in error, and the error will be dealt w/ by God.

This sad issue has not taken affect in the PCA organization and as long as they hold to sola scriptura and their creeds, it is my feeling that they will remain immune. If in fact in the far future they abandon their creed(s), this will no doubt be a sign to everyone that more things are to come.

[Edited on 5-6-2004 by Scott Bushey]

 

[jfschultz]

[quote:ad4f60ac8d][i:ad4f60ac8d]Originally posted by FrozenChosen[/i:ad4f60ac8d]
My Sociology teacher here at Auburn is a member of the PCUSA, but his church is going against the grain and is part of the confessing movement trying to get these things turned over.

I'm interested to see what happens to that branch of the PCUSA. Perhaps it will break off and merge with the PCA or something.

And this is very sad as well.

And pooh on that Auburn Affirmationism junk. I feel bad for going to a university that shares the name. [/quote:ad4f60ac8d]

More likely they would merge with the EPC. In fact the EPC was formed from a split of a couple dozen UPC (Northern) churches in the early 80's when the plan of union's escape clause only applied to the PCUS (Southern) churches. They knew the PCA and OPC etc. wouldn't let them continue with womens ordination.

 

[Mary]

I had also heard about this new turn of events within the PCUSA, and I can't say I am surprised. When I was in college more than 10 years ago (gleeps!) the PCUSA minister was a woman. She talked alot about "tolerance" of other sexual preferences.

I know in philosophy that the "slippery slope" argument is considered fallacious, but I think it's a true argument. When you (as a church body or individually) start changing the rules, it doesn't stop. "That Scripture isn't right. Paul was sexist. Of course women can be ministers. Women can be whatever they want." Well, now Paul was "wrong" about homosexuality too.

One of the coolest things I ever heard the Pope say to the Catholics was that Catholicism is not a buffet. You don't get to take what you want and leave the rest. Well, I'm stealing that quote from him. The Bible isn't a buffet. You don't get to choose the Scriptures that you like and ignore the rest. God is not mocked.

Mary

 

[bigheavyq]

"Gay Presbyterians"

Well, like all bible believing calvinists, I am happy(gay) because of God grace and the assurance of heaven.

I guess that I am a "gay presb."

 

[Me Died Blue]

It's sickening what the PCUSA has done to the general public's notion of the word "Presbyterian," as most people seem to be unaware of its entire history, thinking of the events of the PCUSA over just the past 50 years as being timelsss. One thing that confuses me is why any conservative, Reformed churches remain within the PCUSA at all.

 

[ReformedWretch]

Originally posted by Me Died Blue
It's sickening what the PCUSA has done to the general public's notion of the word "Presbyterian," as most people seem to be unaware of its entire history, thinking of the events of the PCUSA over just the past 50 years as being timelsss. One thing that confuses me is why any conservative, Reformed churches remain within the PCUSA at all.

EXACTLY!

When I told my mother that I was attending a Presbyterian church, the FIRST thing she said was "Don't they accept homosexuality"?

 

[Me Died Blue]

Originally posted by houseparent

Originally posted by Me Died Blue
It's sickening what the PCUSA has done to the general public's notion of the word "Presbyterian," as most people seem to be unaware of its entire history, thinking of the events of the PCUSA over just the past 50 years as being timelsss. One thing that confuses me is why any conservative, Reformed churches remain within the PCUSA at all.

EXACTLY!

When I told my mother that I was attending a Presbyterian church, the FIRST thing she said was "Don't they accept homosexuality"?

Same with my parents (and me less than a year before that)!

 

[SmokingFlax]

I'm right there with ya' (Adam and Chris)...

There was a time not too long ago that I thought ALL established churches (Episcopal, Presbyterian, Methodist...etc. etc. etc.) were of the ilk represented on this post. That explains one of my first posts when I expressed dismay at the lousy advertising for reformed theology/churches.

I thought that the fundy types (even with all of their many flaws) were the only people out there that believed in the inerrant Scriptures. I'd written off a huge chunk of the church because of the obvious apostasy of the more visible portion.

After vexing about the state of the fundy churches for so long (and my aloofness towards them) life became a lonely walk indeed. I'm still fighting my deep distrust of church bodies to this day.


[Edited on 5-12-2004 by SmokingFlax]

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

Why don't they just throw there Bibles away and have one of Freud's text books become their rule of faith. At least they would be honest then.

 

[cupotea]

Originally posted by bigheavyq
"Gay Presbyterians"

Well, like all bible believing calvinists, I am happy(gay) because of God grace and the assurance of heaven.

I guess that I am a "gay presb."

 

[Bladestunner316]

Now this is happy!!

 

[Puritanhead]

Gay ole time in the PCA

Originally posted by Bradley Arakelian
The Permanent Judicial Commission of the Synod of the Covenant of the Presbyterian Church (USA) has reversed the decision by the Permanent Judicial Commission of the Presbytery of Cincinnatti to reprimand the Rev. Stephen Van Kuiken for conducting same-sex marriages.

Looks like they're having a "gay ole time" over in the PCUSA... I don't mean the Flintstones kind of gay.

:bigsmile:

[Edited on 12-31-2004 by Puritanhead]

 

[Puritan Sailor]

Originally posted by Me Died Blue

Originally posted by houseparent

EXACTLY!

When I told my mother that I was attending a Presbyterian church, the FIRST thing she said was "Don't they accept homosexuality"?

Same with my parents (and me less than a year before that)!

I still get this even after explaing it over and over again. I always have to qualify, "I'm a conservative Presbyterian and that liberal bunch is not part of my denomination." But even then people don't always get it.