EP Split Thread

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Originally posted by pastorway
I have a question:

IF we agree to sing only Psalms, then are we not disobeying the very Psalms we are singing???

Psalm 33:3 Sing to Him a new song; Play skillfully with a shout of joy.

Psalm 96:1 Oh, sing to the LORD a new song!Sing to the LORD, all the earth.

Psalm 98:1 Oh, sing to the LORD a new song!For He has done marvelous things; His right hand and His holy arm have gained Him the victory.

Psalm 149:1 Praise the LORD!Sing to the LORD a new song, And His praise in the assembly of saints.

I mean it is rather obvious to me that we are told to sing NEW SONGS. Verufying this with the rest of Scripture we see that Isaiah writes: Sing to the LORD a new song, And His praise from the ends of the earth, You who go down to the sea, and all that is in it, You coastlands and you inhabitants of them! (Is 42:10)

And in heaven a new song is sung and it is not in the Book of Psalms anywhere! Rev 5:9 - in fact, no one could even learn the song (meaning it cannot have been written in the Book of Psalms) except the 144,000 - Rev 14:3.

So singing only Psalms puts us in the position of disobeying other portions of Scripture as well as the Psalms themselves, and since regulations for worship cannot ever lead us into sin then it cannot be a regulation to sing ONLY Psalms.

Phillip

Each of those psalms tells you the very "new song" to be singing.

"Sing to the Lord a new song ... and here is the new song to be sung ..."

Also, once again, I'm confused by the appeal to Revelation for explanations on how to worship God in the Christian Church here on earth at the current time. Do you cast crowns before the throne of the Lord (Rev 4:10) in your worship services? If so, then I think we have more problems than a disagreement over the RPW. :lol: If not, then you refute your appeal to Revelation as a source of information on how to properly worship God today.
 
Originally posted by pastorway
and lets put this stupid, yes STUPID assertion about ladies and the Lord's Supper to rest once and for all (yeah, right).

EVERYONE IN THE CHURCH WAS EXPECTED AND COMMANDED TO EAT THE SUPPER (Acts 2:42; 1 Cor 11:20ff) and this would obviously include the women present. So enough with the ignorant and blind argument that the Bible is SILENT when it SPEAKS rather plainly and LOUDLY.

Phillip

Thank you for your kind and loving clarification, brother.
 
Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia
Originally posted by pastorway
I have a question:

IF we agree to sing only Psalms, then are we not disobeying the very Psalms we are singing???

Psalm 33:3 Sing to Him a new song; Play skillfully with a shout of joy.

Psalm 96:1 Oh, sing to the LORD a new song!Sing to the LORD, all the earth.

Psalm 98:1 Oh, sing to the LORD a new song!For He has done marvelous things; His right hand and His holy arm have gained Him the victory.

Psalm 149:1 Praise the LORD!Sing to the LORD a new song, And His praise in the assembly of saints.

I mean it is rather obvious to me that we are told to sing NEW SONGS. Verufying this with the rest of Scripture we see that Isaiah writes: Sing to the LORD a new song, And His praise from the ends of the earth, You who go down to the sea, and all that is in it, You coastlands and you inhabitants of them! (Is 42:10)

And in heaven a new song is sung and it is not in the Book of Psalms anywhere! Rev 5:9 - in fact, no one could even learn the song (meaning it cannot have been written in the Book of Psalms) except the 144,000 - Rev 14:3.

So singing only Psalms puts us in the position of disobeying other portions of Scripture as well as the Psalms themselves, and since regulations for worship cannot ever lead us into sin then it cannot be a regulation to sing ONLY Psalms.

Phillip

Each of those psalms tells you the very "new song" to be singing.

"Sing to the Lord a new song ... and here is the new song to be sung ..."

Also, once again, I'm confused by the appeal to Revelation for explanations on how to worship God in the Christian Church here on earth at the current time. Do you cast crowns before the throne of the Lord (Rev 4:10) in your worship services? If so, then I think we have more problems than a disagreement over the RPW. :lol: If not, then you refute your appeal to Revelation as a source of information on how to properly worship God today.

Dang...I'm starting to think like an EP'ist...:o
 
Originally posted by crhoades
Originally posted by pastorway
I have a question:

IF we agree to sing only Psalms, then are we not disobeying the very Psalms we are singing???

Psalm 33:3 Sing to Him a new song; Play skillfully with a shout of joy.

Psalm 96:1 Oh, sing to the LORD a new song!Sing to the LORD, all the earth.

Psalm 98:1 Oh, sing to the LORD a new song!For He has done marvelous things; His right hand and His holy arm have gained Him the victory.

Psalm 149:1 Praise the LORD!Sing to the LORD a new song, And His praise in the assembly of saints.

I mean it is rather obvious to me that we are told to sing NEW SONGS. Verufying this with the rest of Scripture we see that Isaiah writes: Sing to the LORD a new song, And His praise from the ends of the earth, You who go down to the sea, and all that is in it, You coastlands and you inhabitants of them! (Is 42:10)

And in heaven a new song is sung and it is not in the Book of Psalms anywhere! Rev 5:9 - in fact, no one could even learn the song (meaning it cannot have been written in the Book of Psalms) except the 144,000 - Rev 14:3.

So singing only Psalms puts us in the position of disobeying other portions of Scripture as well as the Psalms themselves, and since regulations for worship cannot ever lead us into sin then it cannot be a regulation to sing ONLY Psalms.

Phillip

For argument's sake...in the Psalms that you listed above, couldn't the new song be self-referential to the Psalm that was just penned. In other words at one time there were only 32 Psalms penned or gathered. Then the Psalmist sat down to pen the 33rd. So to sing a new song would be in fact an inspired way to say, "hey, sing this song - it's new".

Just trying to look at it at all angles. Gotta think on the Revelation and other pieces of scripture.

But you see, the problem there is that the EP position must assume a completed psalter. Until the psalter is completed, apparently there was no worship singing at all (see posts above). So the command to sing was unlawful, until the psalter was completed, and then it would no longer be a "new" song.
 
Originally posted by Peter
Originally posted by fredtgreco
Originally posted by Peter
Originally posted by joshua
Originally posted by joshua
Question:

Does the RPW not imply that in order for worship to be valid, it should be positively shown in Scripture, whether explicitly or by necessary deduction?

And, if such be the case, wouldn't there have to be a command, or logical deduction promoting the use of uninspired hymns in worship of God?

Be gentle. I'm just thinking out loud here.

Yes indeed! Though, advocates for uninspired hymnody (on the PB anyway) wont try to show from scripture where hymns are commanded instead they'll critique nuances of inspired Psalmody.:)

[Edited on 7-26-2005 by Peter]

It is actually pretty simple:

Paul said sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. We are commanded to sing a "new song." We are commanded to sing in worship. No one has shown how that is possible BEFORE the psalms were written. The only thing that has been offered is that there was absolutely no singing at all before David. So for millennia, including the time when there were formal singers in the tabernacle, no one sang in worship. Apparently all the other elements of worship: prayer, reading the Scriptures, preaching, etc are perpetual and are part of worship. That is why they are elements. It is only song that is an optional part of worship. Apparently it was not needed before 1000 BC.

Yes I did but you never responded to me. Again: Just b/c there is a dearth of inspired songs inscripturated into the canon does not mean they never existed. "New song" refers to the present song, eg. Ps 40, not a new uninspired composition.

Peter,

I have responded. Is it not your position that an singing an inspired inscripturated song in worship that is not withing the 150 psalms is anathama to God?
 
Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia
Originally posted by pastorway
I have a question:

IF we agree to sing only Psalms, then are we not disobeying the very Psalms we are singing???

Psalm 33:3 Sing to Him a new song; Play skillfully with a shout of joy.

Psalm 96:1 Oh, sing to the LORD a new song!Sing to the LORD, all the earth.

Psalm 98:1 Oh, sing to the LORD a new song!For He has done marvelous things; His right hand and His holy arm have gained Him the victory.

Psalm 149:1 Praise the LORD!Sing to the LORD a new song, And His praise in the assembly of saints.

I mean it is rather obvious to me that we are told to sing NEW SONGS. Verufying this with the rest of Scripture we see that Isaiah writes: Sing to the LORD a new song, And His praise from the ends of the earth, You who go down to the sea, and all that is in it, You coastlands and you inhabitants of them! (Is 42:10)

And in heaven a new song is sung and it is not in the Book of Psalms anywhere! Rev 5:9 - in fact, no one could even learn the song (meaning it cannot have been written in the Book of Psalms) except the 144,000 - Rev 14:3.

So singing only Psalms puts us in the position of disobeying other portions of Scripture as well as the Psalms themselves, and since regulations for worship cannot ever lead us into sin then it cannot be a regulation to sing ONLY Psalms.

Phillip

Each of those psalms tells you the very "new song" to be singing.

"Sing to the Lord a new song ... and here is the new song to be sung ..."

Also, once again, I'm confused by the appeal to Revelation for explanations on how to worship God in the Christian Church here on earth at the current time. Do you cast crowns before the throne of the Lord (Rev 4:10) in your worship services? If so, then I think we have more problems than a disagreement over the RPW. :lol: If not, then you refute your appeal to Revelation as a source of information on how to properly worship God today.

Umm,

Isaiah 42 is not a psalm. And it is not in Revelation either...
 
Originally posted by fredtgreco
But you see, the problem there is that the EP position must assume a completed psalter. Until the psalter is completed, apparently there was no worship singing at all (see posts above). So the command to sing was unlawful, until the psalter was completed, and then it would no longer be a "new" song.

Let me see if I understand you.

Point in time1 or T1. There were 32 Psalms penned. There were people in the temple, let's call them exclusive psalmists ;) They were convinced that the only songs that should be sung were the 32 Psalms. Along comes David (or someone else) and says aha! I have penned a New Song. Let's just tuck it in behind #32 and call it the 33rd Psalm. Would not the EP of the day say, "Nay! thrice Nay! you are adding to the 32 Psalms".

Is this also where your arugment says that the Bible didn't alert the Israelites that, "By the way, we are starting up a new song book. Look for new songs from David et.al. and allow them into temple worship"...

Am I close or am I misunderstanding you...
 
Originally posted by crhoades
Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia
Originally posted by pastorway
I have a question:

IF we agree to sing only Psalms, then are we not disobeying the very Psalms we are singing???

Psalm 33:3 Sing to Him a new song; Play skillfully with a shout of joy.

Psalm 96:1 Oh, sing to the LORD a new song!Sing to the LORD, all the earth.

Psalm 98:1 Oh, sing to the LORD a new song!For He has done marvelous things; His right hand and His holy arm have gained Him the victory.

Psalm 149:1 Praise the LORD!Sing to the LORD a new song, And His praise in the assembly of saints.

I mean it is rather obvious to me that we are told to sing NEW SONGS. Verufying this with the rest of Scripture we see that Isaiah writes: Sing to the LORD a new song, And His praise from the ends of the earth, You who go down to the sea, and all that is in it, You coastlands and you inhabitants of them! (Is 42:10)

And in heaven a new song is sung and it is not in the Book of Psalms anywhere! Rev 5:9 - in fact, no one could even learn the song (meaning it cannot have been written in the Book of Psalms) except the 144,000 - Rev 14:3.

So singing only Psalms puts us in the position of disobeying other portions of Scripture as well as the Psalms themselves, and since regulations for worship cannot ever lead us into sin then it cannot be a regulation to sing ONLY Psalms.

Phillip

Each of those psalms tells you the very "new song" to be singing.

"Sing to the Lord a new song ... and here is the new song to be sung ..."

Also, once again, I'm confused by the appeal to Revelation for explanations on how to worship God in the Christian Church here on earth at the current time. Do you cast crowns before the throne of the Lord (Rev 4:10) in your worship services? If so, then I think we have more problems than a disagreement over the RPW. :lol: If not, then you refute your appeal to Revelation as a source of information on how to properly worship God today.

Dang...I'm starting to think like an EP'ist...:o

Not me. I am seated in the heavenlies. Casting my will before him to make it his will. I am giving up my authority so that he can be glorified as the Authority. And no one is baking cake or fixing lawnmowers here. We are following the command to sing Psalms, Hymns, and Spiritual Songs. The guide lines are truth in Him, and order.
Someone tell me where Church Bulletin guidelines are. Please.
 
Originally posted by crhoades
Originally posted by fredtgreco
But you see, the problem there is that the EP position must assume a completed psalter. Until the psalter is completed, apparently there was no worship singing at all (see posts above). So the command to sing was unlawful, until the psalter was completed, and then it would no longer be a "new" song.

Let me see if I understand you.

Point in time1 or T1. There were 32 Psalms penned. There were people in the temple, let's call them exclusive psalmists ;) They were convinced that the only songs that should be sung were the 32 Psalms. Along comes David (or someone else) and says aha! I have penned a New Song. Let's just tuck it in behind #32 and call it the 33rd Psalm. Would not the EP of the day say, "Nay! thrice Nay! you are adding to the 32 Psalms".

Is this also where your arugment says that the Bible didn't alert the Israelites that, "By the way, we are starting up a new song book. Look for new songs from David et.al. and allow them into temple worship"...

Am I close or am I misunderstanding you...

Yes. And don't forget that we would need another command: "by the way, the songs you have been singing in worship for a couple of centuries, the ones inspired by me and written in the Book of the Law -- no good anymore"
 
Originally posted by fredtgreco
The reason, Gabriel, that it is called begging the question is that you have made the assumption that in order to have any regulation of the element of song, you must have your preconceived regulation. No one (least of all me) has asserted that the element of song is unregulated. We have only asserted that it is not regulated as you have stated.

Please show me the explicit command in the Scripture where the regulation of song is dramatically changed from the time of Seth (or Abraham, or Moses) and that of David.

So, to be clear, you are not rejecting the RPW outright, are you? I don't think you are, I just want to be clear so I don't jump to conclusions.

I haven't made any assumptions regarded how the singing of praise is to be regulated, either, though. I am basing this regulation on Scripture alone.

Everything involved in Temple worship has been abrogated by Christ's sacrifice. The Church of the New Testament is the anti-type of the Temple. With a change in the priesthood, there is a change in the law. Therefore, it is not wrong to "throw out" the Temple system with the onset of Christ's advent and look to the New Testament for instructions on New Covenant worship. In regards to this, Paul and the apostles essentially become our David or our Moses. Paul and the apostles teach us, according to the commandments of God, how we are to worship as New Covenant believers. What we do read about worship in the New Testament is the following:

1. It is to be done in spirit and truth (John 4:23). A clear study of John's gospel and the NT defines both spirit and truth for us. The spirit is the Spirit of God that leads our hearts into worship (Phil 3:3) and the truth is God's Word (John 17:17).

2. We are to teach and admonish one another through singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual (sacred, of the Holy Spirit, if you compare usage in the NT) songs, making melody in our hearts through the Spirit of Christ; that is, regenerate hearts alone can truly worship God (Eph 5:19; Col 3:16).

3. We are to edify/build up one another in worship (1 Cor 14). This means an increase in wisdom, devotion, knowledge, etc. This cannot happen through uninspired lyrics. God's Word alone is wise and capable of making us wise. The wisdom of this world is foolishness to God.

4. We are to make our "sacrifice of praise" with our lips (Heb 13:15).

5. Worship is to be with reverence and awe, because God is serious about worship (Heb 12:28-29; Cf. Lev 10:1-3, "consuming fire").

This, then, leads me to conclude about worship, from the New Testament (since worshipping according to the Old Testament is Judaizing and apostasy against the New Covenant according to Hebrews), that:

- We worship God by His Spirit from a regenerate heart.

- We worship God with His Word, which is truth.

- With God's Word, we edify, teach, and admonish one another.

- We worship in this manner because God is still as serious about worship as He was in Moses' day.


I don't understand your final question. That seems more like arguing from silence on both sides of the coin to me. We know that the Levites sang songs and played instruments to them, and that, later on, they sang the Psalms and played the "instruments of David." However, before this time, they obviously had to still sing songs. There is no reason to believe and no evidence to infer that they sang uninspired songs; that is, songs of human composition, through and through. That would require some clear passages showing us that this was the case. Scripture does teach us, however, that God determined to leave us with 150 songs written by His Spirit for the purpose of worship and edification. For whatever reason, God determined that the other songs sung prior to this time were not to be included in His Word. That should end the discussion right there, in my estimation. Also, David wasn't the only author of the Psalms. They were written over a VERY long period of time, by several different people. Many of the Psalms have unknown authorship and dating, and it is not wrong to speculate that they were written during the time of Moses and the initiation of the Levitical order. In fact, one of the Psalms was written by Moses himself. Who is to say that many others weren't written during that time period as well? Not I! ;):2cents:
 
If EP is true than no one could sing anything before the Book of Psalms was completed. But people did sing before that in the Bible.

So either they sang Psalms before they were written (which we can disprove reading the recorded songs of Moses, etc). Or they sang songs that were not Psalms.

If they sang songs that were not Psalms, then were did the regulation of singing in worship CHANGE?

Phillip
 
Originally posted by fredtgreco
Originally posted by Peter
Originally posted by fredtgreco
Originally posted by Peter
Originally posted by joshua
Originally posted by joshua
Question:

Does the RPW not imply that in order for worship to be valid, it should be positively shown in Scripture, whether explicitly or by necessary deduction?

And, if such be the case, wouldn't there have to be a command, or logical deduction promoting the use of uninspired hymns in worship of God?

Be gentle. I'm just thinking out loud here.

Yes indeed! Though, advocates for uninspired hymnody (on the PB anyway) wont try to show from scripture where hymns are commanded instead they'll critique nuances of inspired Psalmody.:)

[Edited on 7-26-2005 by Peter]

It is actually pretty simple:

Paul said sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. We are commanded to sing a "new song." We are commanded to sing in worship. No one has shown how that is possible BEFORE the psalms were written. The only thing that has been offered is that there was absolutely no singing at all before David. So for millennia, including the time when there were formal singers in the tabernacle, no one sang in worship. Apparently all the other elements of worship: prayer, reading the Scriptures, preaching, etc are perpetual and are part of worship. That is why they are elements. It is only song that is an optional part of worship. Apparently it was not needed before 1000 BC.

Yes I did but you never responded to me. Again: Just b/c there is a dearth of inspired songs inscripturated into the canon does not mean they never existed. "New song" refers to the present song, eg. Ps 40, not a new uninspired composition.

Peter,

I have responded. Is it not your position that an singing an inspired inscripturated song in worship that is not withing the 150 psalms is anathama to God?

Complex question. It is PRESENTLY a sin.
 
Originally posted by fredtgreco
Umm,

Isaiah 42 is not a psalm. And it is not in Revelation either...


Yes, but what is the context of Isaiah 42? What is the context of Isaiah as a whole? A "new song" is a theological concept, relating to "this new and great occasion, the calling and salvation of the world by Christ" (Matthew Poole's Commentary) in this context. It is not literally talking about a song to be sung, at least I don't see that at all in this passage/context. This whole argument reminds me of the meaning of "new" in regards to the New Covenant and the New Commandment that John teaches us in 1 John and 2 John. Are they really brand new things? No. Why are they new? They are made new in Christ.
 
I hope everyone notices that Matt started this and is nowhere to be found...he probably is sitting back with some popcorn and a beer right now laughing at us. Matt?!? Oh, Maaaatt!:sing:
 
Originally posted by pastorway
If EP is true than no one could sing anything before the Book of Psalms was completed. But people did sing before that in the Bible.

So either they sang Psalms before they were written (which we can disprove reading the recorded songs of Moses, etc). Or they sang songs that were not Psalms.

If they sang songs that were not Psalms, then were did the regulation of singing in worship CHANGE?

Phillip

*Screams*

The Regulative Principle of Worship applies to God's people according to the revelation of His promise and will in the time where they are, temporally speaking.

We don't worship God as Job did, as Moses did, as Abraham did, nor as David did. We are under the New Covenant, and there are new laws for the new priesthood (Heb 7). This is the only possibility, unless we say that (A) The Temple system wasn't fulfilled and abrogated by Christ and the Church, or (B) We should be dancing, clapping hands, sacrificing bulls, and using various determined instruments to worship God in our churches today.

We worship the same God through the same Mediator, but the administration has changed. The substance of our worship has remained constant, but how it is done has changed, because our Lord became a curse for us, died, and raised again. He nailed the Levitical system to the cross (Eph 2).

[Edited on 7-27-2005 by WrittenFromUtopia]
 
Originally posted by puritancovenanter
I'm sitting here eating chicken wings and stir fry just having a ball.
Playing the devils advocate.

Now I'm hungry! :mad:

I need to be working on a rather large critical analysis of a novel for my Recent Writing class, so I'll probably be bowing out for a while soon.
 
Originally posted by puritancovenanter
I'm sitting here eating chicken wings and stir fry just having a ball.
Playing the devils advocate.

You're not suggesting that we substitute the Lord's Supper with chicken wings and stir fry are you? Talk about violating the RPW!:lol:
 
Originally posted by Peter

Complex question. It is PRESENTLY a sin.

Thank you for being clear:

so right now, if in worship I desire to sing the very words of God, it is a sin. So it is a sin to sing the actual Hebrew or Greek words of God, but permissible to sing an uninspired paraphrase or translation, correct?
 
Originally posted by crhoades
Originally posted by puritancovenanter
I'm sitting here eating chicken wings and stir fry just having a ball.
Playing the devils advocate.

You're not suggesting that we substitute the Lord's Supper with chicken wings and stir fry are you? Talk about violating the RPW!:lol:

Who is bringing the wine! You all are invited. You gotta bring your own XBOX games and controllers though. My kids are stingy.
 
Originally posted by fredtgreco
Originally posted by Peter

Complex question. It is PRESENTLY a sin.

Thank you for being clear:

so right now, if in worship I desire to sing the very words of God, it is a sin. So it is a sin to sing the actual Hebrew or Greek words of God, but permissible to sing an uninspired paraphrase or translation, correct?

No not a sin if they are a psalm, yes permissable to sing an INspired translation.

Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot
From a previous thread on inspired Scripture:

Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot
Originally posted by fredtgreco
This is an extremely interesting aspect of the doctrine of inspiration. Why? Because in fact it is most likely that was Paul was referring to in 2 Tim 3:16, was not only not an autograph, but it was most probably a translation - the Septuagint. And yet Paul treats the Septuagint as Scripture, not as something less than Scripture.

This is a significant point with respect to the exclusive psalmody debate. :scholar:

[Edited on 7-26-2005 by VirginiaHuguenot]
 
From Exclusive Psalmody: A Biblical Defense by Brian Schwertley:
When interpreting religious terminology used by Paul in his epistles, there are certain rules of interpretation which should be followed. First, the religious thinking and world view of the apostles was essentially from the Old Testament and Jesus Christ, not Greek heathenism. Therefore, when Paul discusses doctrine or worship, the first place to look for help in understanding religious terms is the Old Testament. We often find Hebrew expressions or terms expressed in koine Greek. Second, we must keep in mind that the churches that Paul founded in Asia consisted of converted Jews, Gentile proselytes to Old Testament Judaism (God-fearers), and Gentile pagans. These churches had a Greek version of the Old Testament called the Septuagint. When Paul expressed Old Testament ideas to a Greek-speaking audience, he would use the religious terminology of the Septuagint. If the terms hymns (humnois) and spiritual songs (odais pheumatikais) were defined within the New Testament, then looking to the Septuagint for the meaning of these words would be unnecessary. Given the fact, however, that these terms are rarely used in the New Testament and cannot be defined within their immediate context apart from a knowledge of the Old Testament, it would be exegetically irresponsible to ignore how these words are used in the Septuagint version of the Old Testament.

When we examine the Septuagint, we find that the terms psalm (psalmos), hymn (humnos), and song (odee) used by Paul clearly refer to the Old Testament book of Psalms and not to ancient or modern uninspired hymns or songs.

Bushell writes:

Psalmos occurs some 87 times in the Septuagint, some 78 of which are in the Psalms themselves, and 67 times in the psalm titles. It also forms the title to the Greek version of the psalter. Humnos occurs some 17 times in the Septuagint, 13 of which are in the Psalms, six times in the titles. In 2 Samuel, 1 & 2 Chronicles and Nehemiah there are some 16 examples in which the Psalms are called "˜hymns´ (humnoi) or "˜songs´ (odai) and the singing of them is called "˜hymning´ (humneo, humnodeo, humnesis). Odee occurs some 80 times in the Septuagint, 45 of which are in the Psalms, 36 in the Psalm titles.[25]

In twelve Psalm titles we find both psalm and song; and, in two others we find psalm and hymn. "œPsalm seventy-six is designated "˜psalm, hymn and song.´ And at the end of the first seventy two psalms we read "˜the hymns of David the son of Jesse are ended´ (Ps. 72:20). In other words, there is no more reason to think that the Apostle referred to psalms when he said "˜psalms,´ than when he said "˜hymns´ and "˜songs,´ for all three were biblical terms for (the) psalms in the book of psalms itself."[26] To ignore how Paul´s audience would have understood these terms and how these terms are defined by the Bible; and then instead to import non-biblical modern meanings into these terms is exegetical malpractice.

One of the most common objections against the idea that in Ephesians 5:19 and Colossians 3:16 Paul is speaking of the book of Psalms is that it would be absurd for apostle to say, "œsing psalms, psalms, and psalms." This objection fails to consider the fact that a common literary method among the ancient Jews was to use a triadic form of expression to express an idea, act, or object. The Bible contains many examples of triadic expression. For example: Exodus 34:7"”"œiniquity and transgression and sin"; Deuteronomy 5:31 and 6:1"”"œcommandments and statutes and judgments"; Matthew 22:37"”"œwith all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind" (cf. Mark 12:30; Luke 10:27); Acts 2:22"”"œmiracles and wonders and signs"; Ephesians 5:19 and Colossians 3:16"”"œpsalms and hymns and spiritual song." "œThe triadic distinction used by Paul would be readily understood by those familiar with their Hebrew OT Psalter or the Greek Septuagint, where the Psalm titles are differentiated psalms, hymns, and songs. This interpretation does justice to the analogy of Scripture, i.e., Scripture is its own best interpreter."[27]
The interpretation that says that "œpsalms, hymns, and spiritual songs" refers to the inspired book of Psalms also receives biblical support from the immediate context and grammar of these passages. In Colossians 3:16 we are exhorted: "œLet the word of Christ dwell in you richly" In this passage the word of Christ is very likely synonymous with the word of God.

In 1 Pet. 1:11 it is stated that "˜the spirit of Christ´ was in the Old Testament prophets and through them testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glory which should follow. If, as is definitely stated, the Spirit of Christ testified these things through the prophets, then Christ was the real Author of those Scriptures. Prominent among those prophecies, which so testified concerning Christ, is the Book of Psalms, and therefore Christ is the Author of the Psalms.[28]

After Paul exhorts the Colossian church to let the word of Christ dwell in them richly, he immediately points them to the book of Psalms; a book which comprehends "œmost beautifully and briefly everything that is in the entire Bible;"[29] a book far superior to any human devotional book, which Calvin called "œan anatomy of all parts of the soul;"[30] a book which is "œa compendium of all divinity."[31] Do we let the Scriptures, the word of Christ dwell within us when we sing uninspired human compositions in worship? No, we do not! If we are to sing and meditate upon the word of Christ, we must sing the songs that Christ has written by His Spirit"”the book of Psalms.

The grammar also supports the contention that Paul was speaking of the book of Psalms. In our English Bibles the adjective spiritual only applies to the word songs ("œspiritual songs"). In the Greek language, however, when an adjective immediately follows two or more nouns, it applies to all the preceding nouns.
John Murray writes,

Why does the word pneumatikos [spiritual][32] qualify odais and not psalmois and hymnois? A reasonable answer to this question is that pneumatikais qualifies all three datives and that its gender (fem.) is due to attraction to the gender of the noun that is closest to it. Another distinct possibility, made particularly plausible by the omission of the copulative in Colossians 3:16, is that "˜Spiritual songs´ are the genus of which "˜psalms´ and "˜hymns´ are the species. This is the view of Meyer, for example. On either of these assumptions the psalms, hymns, and songs are all "˜Spiritual´ and therefore all inspired by the Holy Spirit. The bearing of this upon the question at issue is perfectly apparent. Uninspired hymns are immediately excluded.[33]
If one wants to argue that spiritual does not apply to psalms and hymns, then one must answer two pertinent questions. First, why would Paul insist on divine inspiration for songs, yet permit uninspired hymns? We can safely assume that Paul was not irrational. Second, given the fact that psalms refers to divinely inspired songs, it would be unscriptural not to apply spiritual to that term. Furthermore, since we have already established that the phrase "œpsalms, hymns, and spiritual songs" refers to the divinely inspired book of Psalms, it is only natural to apply spiritual to all three terms. Since the book of Psalms is composed of divinely inspired (or spiritual) psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, we obey God only when we praise Him using the biblical Psalter. Uninspired hymns do not meet the scriptural criteria for authorized praise.

[ http://reformedonline.com/view/reformedonline/psalm.htm ]
 
Originally posted by crhoades
I hope everyone notices that Matt started this and is nowhere to be found...he probably is sitting back with some popcorn and a beer right now laughing at us. Matt?!? Oh, Maaaatt!:sing:

You got it brother. But its Perrier and chocolate covered pecans!
It hasn't become interesting just yet....:D
 
Originally posted by webmaster
Originally posted by crhoades
I hope everyone notices that Matt started this and is nowhere to be found...he probably is sitting back with some popcorn and a beer right now laughing at us. Matt?!? Oh, Maaaatt!:sing:

You got it brother. But its Perrier and chocolate covered pecans!
It hasn't become interesting just yet....:D

What line of argument are you waiting for, for it to become interesting? You know...to get the ball rolling in your direction.
 
he is looking for the inspired injunction to sing only inspired songs only recorded in the Book of Psalms.........

Phillip
 
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