Forgiveness

[beloved7]

Does biblical forgiveness require repentance on the part of the offending party? In other words, does someone need to be sorry in order for us to truly be able to fully, and genuinely forgive them?

The argument being that biblical forgiveness is true reconciliation; how can we be reconciled to someone that is stiff necked and unrepentant? I’ve heard this argument recently and am not sure what to make of it. Naturally it feels logical and right, on the other hand Romans 5:8 seems to indicate that we should forgive anyhow.

 

[Joshua]

I like the distinction Rutherford makes:

The private forgiving is a duty of charity commanded in the Law of Nature to all, even out of Church-state, and obligeth the Excommunicate, who, though they be case out of the Church, are not exempted from the Law, that bindeth all, Mat. 6.12, 14, 15; Mat. 4.44.46. but the Church-forgiving is an act of obedience to a positive Church-Law of Christ, 2. private Christians are to forgive their Enemies whether they repent, or not, even as Christ forgave those who crucified Him, Col. 3.13. Luk. 23.34. and when the party repenteth not, this forgiveness is not ratified in Heaven, yet are we obliged to forgive, and to commit vengeance to God; but the authoritative forgiveness is a thing that the Church, is not obliged unto, absolutely; nor may they, or can they forgive, except the Offender repent: and if they see that he repenteth not, they cannot lawfully forgive; but, being in God’s room, must take vengeance on all disobedience, and their retaining of sin and forgiving, is valid in Heaven, because they are in God’s place. Now any forgiving or retaining of sin but these two, together with God’s forgiving and retaining, we know not. But Peter’s forgiving his offending brother seventy times seven times, is common to all private Christians, even out of Church-state, and so the instance given is not to the purpose, 6. To these only are the Keys given, who having Paul’s pastoral spirit, may convene and deliver to Satan, but the Church of believers without Officers, not having Paul’s pastoral spirit which is a spirit official, and authoritative to preach, excommunicate, and administrate the seals of the Covenant, may not convene and do this.​

• Samuel Rutherford, The Due Right of Presbyteries (Peaceable Plea)

 

[SeanPatrickCornell]

Others will disagree, but I say the answer to your questions is, "no".

 

[ZackF]

Reconciliation is also to be distinguished from forgiveness.

 

[beloved7]

Others will disagree, but I say the answer to your questions is, "no".

This is where I am leaning as well, in light of the Parable of the Unmerciful Servant. Though of course one could quickly point out that the wicked servant refused to forgive someone who was seeking forgiveness, so that brings us back to square one. I also think of the Lord’s Prayer.

Ultimately it is the power of Christ that has the power to change this sinful world, and forgiving all sins is the type of love that can and does change the hearts of others. We can’t do this on our own of course, we need the Holy Spirit for such deep sanctification. I think forgiving all sins would be the safe approach, as it were.

 

[timfost]

In the past I would have said that apart from repentance one could not forgive, though one could be merciful in not holding the sin of someone against them. Recently I've been struggling with that idea, though. I know that I have sinned against God many more times than I have asked Him for forgiveness. Yet I'm forgiven nonetheless. And I want to be more like Him.

 

[JH]

I like the distinction Rutherford makes:

The private forgiving is a duty of charity commanded in the Law of Nature to all, even out of Church-state, and obligeth the Excommunicate, who, though they be case out of the Church, are not exempted from the Law, that bindeth all, Mat. 6.12, 14, 15; Mat. 4.44.46. but the Church-forgiving is an act of obedience to a positive Church-Law of Christ, 2. private Christians are to forgive their Enemies whether they repent, or not, even as Christ forgave those who crucified Him, Col. 3.13. Luk. 23.34. and when the party repenteth not, this forgiveness is not ratified in Heaven, yet are we obliged to forgive, and to commit vengeance to God; but the authoritative forgiveness is a thing that the Church, is not obliged unto, absolutely; nor may they, or can they forgive, except the Offender repent: and if they see that he repenteth not, they cannot lawfully forgive; but, being in God’s room, must take vengeance on all disobedience, and their retaining of sin and forgiving, is valid in Heaven, because they are in God’s place. Now any forgiving or retaining of sin but these two, together with God’s forgiving and retaining, we know not. But Peter’s forgiving his offending brother seventy times seven times, is common to all private Christians, even out of Church-state, and so the instance given is not to the purpose, 6. To these only are the Keys given, who having Paul’s pastoral spirit, may convene and deliver to Satan, but the Church of believers without Officers, not having Paul’s pastoral spirit which is a spirit official, and authoritative to preach, excommunicate, and administrate the seals of the Covenant, may not convene and do this.​

• Samuel Rutherford, The Due Right of Presbyteries (Peaceable Plea)

That my friend, was really good and succinct.

 

[Joshua]

That my friend, was really good and succinct.

Whether devotional or polemical, Rutherford's top tier.

 

[Jonathan95]

. I know that I have sinned against God many more times than I have asked Him for forgiveness. Yet I'm forgiven nonetheless.

Are you saying that there are sins that you have not sought forgiveness for? I would think that, in accordance with the Lord's Prayer, that you have asked for forgiveness whenever in prayer with the Father.

 

[Joshua]

Are you saying that there are sins that you have not sought forgiveness for? I would think that, in accordance with the Lord's Prayer, that you have asked for forgiveness whenever in prayer with the Father.

One cannot ask forgiveness, properly, for sins they don't know about. Hence, the need for self-examination, the thankfulness that the Lord -in His mercy- does not treat with us according to what we deserve, especially since most of our sins, likely, pass by us in ignorance.

 

[Andrew35]

Since one's sins are ultimately against God, I've always felt like my forgiveness of an unrepentant person is the least of his problems.

In my view, this is why Stephen and Christ asked for God's forgiveness of those murdering them, rather than just saying "I forgive you."

 

[timfost]

Are you saying that there are sins that you have not sought forgiveness for? I would think that, in accordance with the Lord's Prayer, that you have asked for forgiveness whenever in prayer with the Father.

I have repented generally, and specifically for many sins. But the Father's forgiveness of all my specific sins does not depend on my asking for forgiveness for every specific sin.

 

[JH]

One cannot ask forgiveness, properly, for sins they don't know about. Hence, the need for self-examination, the thankfulness that the Lord -in His mercy- does not treat with us according to what we deserve, especially since most of our sins, likely, pass by us in ignorance.

Reminds me of Dickson on confessing our sins to a priest