Give account & our sin

[nwink]

In the day of judgment, we know the Christian will have to give account for his deeds. We know we, who are in Christ, will not be condemned but will be openly acknowledged and acquitted.

My question is -- will our sins that we committed be openly shown to all on that final day? I've heard some Reformed authors say that since God casts our sin away and does not remember it...therefore, our sin will not be shown and only our righteous deeds will be seen. But I don't understand how people can think this if we know we will give account for everything we did.

 

[nwink]

Thoughts?

 

[earl40]

I think everyone will SEE just how gracious God is to His children, and I am assured you will be quite amazed just how gracious He is to me.

 

[nwink]

I echo your thoughts, Earl! What abounding grace God shows towards us!

But my question is more trying to understand the details of Judgment Day. Will our sin be openly revealed before men, angels, God, and then we be openly acknowledged and acquitted because of Christ? We know we will have to give account -- so will that involve our sin being openly revealed or will there be no mention of our sin if God doesn't remember it? Or is the God-not-remembering-our-sin of Ps 103 a faulty application people make to judgment day to say that God will have no recall of our sin on that day? I am really wanting to weed out wrong thoughts I have on this issue and know even more what I will expect on that day.

I find this a very practical question. Would that not give us even more reason to fight against sin, knowing it will be openly shown forth on that day? I mean, I feel like "giving account" would involve our sin being made open -- I'm just trying to wrap my head around all these details.

 

[Goodcheer68]

The Bible says that if we are in Christ there is no condemnation. And because our sin has been dealt with on the cross, I wouldn't understand the justness of bringing it up again.

 

[nwink]

The Bible says that if we are in Christ there is no condemnation. And because our sin has been dealt with on the cross, I wouldn't understand the justness of bringing it up again.

Patrick, I know we will not be condemned, but what do you think our "giving account" will involve? If we did not do the good when we should have, is that not sin? So in that case, would our sin be openly mentioned? If judgment day involves nothing more than us being acknowledged and acquitted by God, why does it seem the Confession speaks of it motivating us to holiness? That's what I'm trying to get at...

 

[earl40]

The Bible says that if we are in Christ there is no condemnation. And because our sin has been dealt with on the cross, I wouldn't understand the justness of bringing it up again.

Rewards and loss of same happens at the last judgment for His children, as are the number of stripes administered to the lost.

 

[Goodcheer68]

I hear what your saying, I know that the Bible talks about rewards and so forth. And I confess I don't know how that all works out, but I highly doubt our sins will be on put display for all to see if we are in Christ. It would almost be like double jeopardy.

 

[earl40]

I hear what your saying, I know that the Bible talks about rewards and so forth. And I confess I don't know how that all works out, but I highly doubt our sins will be on put display for all to see if we are in Christ. It would almost be like double jeopardy.

Double jeopardy? Like the holes in His hands our past sin will be a reminder of how gracious Jesus was to us for ever and ever.

 

[nwink]

Here are a few of the Scripture passages I have in mind regarding this topic. Heb 10:17, in the context of the promises of the new covenant from Jeremiah 31 & 33, "And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more." And Romans 14:10-13 "But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way." At the end of the parable of the servant who was a steward for his master during the master's trip in Luke 12, Jesus says in verse 48, "For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more."

So God has promised not to remember our sins anymore. We also know that every one of us will give account of himself to God -- so would this not be giving account of everything in our lives? (I mean, isn't even the word "account" just detailing what all happened for the time period in consideration? And will we not give account as ones who will be accountable?) We also see from Luke 12, Romans and other passages that we will be accountable for the light we have received. So does God "not remembering" our sins mean that He won't remember them in judgment and condemnation against us...but that He will be aware of them on the day of judgment when we give account for our lives (sins included?)? As I said earlier, isn't failing to obey and live according to what will be required of us...sin?

YES, we will be openly acknowledged and acquitted because of Christ (praise God!), but let us not gloss over these details of what it means that we will give account, as this is part of the revealed will of God!

Robert Haldane, in his commentary on Romans 14:12, says, "Every individual of the human race must give account of himself to God. This applies to believers as well as to others. And though all their sins are blotted out through the blood of atonement, they should not indulge themselves in sin. The fact of a future judgment ought to have a constant influence on our conduct. Standing before the judgment-seat of Christ, of which the Apostle had just before spoken, is here represented as giving an account to God."

Calvin, on Luke 12:48, says, "Christ shows by another circumstance, that the more highly favored disciples ought to be visited with severer punishment, if they despise their calling, and abandon themselves without reserve to every kind of licentiousness; because the more eminent a man is, he ought to consider that so much the more has been entrusted to him, and on the express condition that he shall one day render an account of it. In the same proportion, therefore, as any of us is endued with higher gifts, if he does not, like a field which has been cultivated at greater expense, yield to the Lord more abundant produce, the abuse of that grace which he has profaned, or uselessly withheld, will cost him dear."

 

[nwink]

Thoughts?

 

[py3ak]

Nathan, this has been a matter of some discussion within the Reformed community. I don't have my books to hand at the moment, but I think John Newton in one of his letters (which you can probably find online) addresses himself to this question and puts the proposition that the sins of believers will be made known on the day of judgment in about the most comforting light possible. Others take the opposite position - perhaps John Brown is among them? As I say, I can't check right now.

 

[nwink]

Ruben, any information, book recommendations, etc you could provide would be excellent. It's something I really want to learn more about! Thanks for your input.

 

[seajayrice]

The accountability at judgment and commensurate eternal consequences are derived solely on the merit and benefits of Christ (anything good comes from where?); so far as sin being exposed, His blood obliterates our sin. What is that accountability at judgment, undogmatically speaking I sure hope it's not based on today, this week, this year, etc. If you gain any insight on the matter, please post it here. However, a few related concepts are clear as to the Believers accountability; fear God, sin no more, God is not mocked. One thing is sure, our loving Father will be diligent to chasten those whom He loves (Ps 42:7). Any thoughts that our sins escape notice is foolhardy (coram Deo). Rejoice in Him, there will be no second-rate mansions on the other side of glory. Heb 12:2

 

[nwink]

The accountability at judgment and commensurate eternal consequences are derived solely on the merit and benefits of Christ (anything good comes from where?); so far as sin being exposed, His blood obliterates our sin.

CJ, I fully understand our declaration as justified, righteous standing, adoption, etc are all entirely based on the merit of Christ alone. But how does our "accountability" factor into the day of judgment?

The WCF 33.1 says, "all persons that have lived upon earth shall appear before the tribunal of Christ, to give an account of their thoughts, words, and deeds; and to receive according to what they have done in the body, whether good or evil." WCF 33.3 says, "As Christ would have us to be certainly persuaded that there shall be a day of judgment, both to deter all men from sin; and for the greater consolation of the godly in their adversity: so will he have that day unknown to men, that they may shake off all carnal security, and be always watchful, because they know not at what hour the Lord will come; and may be ever prepared to say, Come Lord Jesus, come quickly, Amen."

As the Confession says, all men will give an account of their thoughts, words and deeds. So in being "accountable," this surely seems to involve something other than our open acknowledgment and acquittal because of Christ. I mean, NO thought, word, deed we ever did as Christians will ever be done from 100% perfectly...but praise God that our filthy rags of "righteousness" are not the basis of our standing before Him, praise God for the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit, praise God for a new heart of flesh, etc...BUT if we are to give account on that day and if only our righteous acts are shown (and no sin of ours is manifested), we won't have anything to give account for! (well, maybe so...as that relates to the whole receiving-rewards issue) OR if only Christ's righteousness is shown, how would that be us giving "account" of our every thought, word, deed? Is not "giving account" detailing everything for the master...how good of stewards we were in his service?

Should not the warnings in Scripture of giving account on that day and of much-being-required-of us stir us to greater holiness? I mean, as Christians we don't live in fear of the condemning wrath of the Judge, but we do long to please our Father in all we do and to be good stewards of the knowledge, gifts, opportunities He's given us! As the WCF says, knowledge of this day should deter all men from sin. I am asking these questions because these are details I'm trying to reconcile in Scripture and am very interested in, and I want input to see what these things mean. It seems to me that "accountability" is often neglected in light of our acceptance with God in Christ (the "big picture" and extremely important)...but it seems that knowing we will be accountable should be something we always live in light of.

 

[seajayrice]

The accountability at judgment and commensurate eternal consequences are derived solely on the merit and benefits of Christ (anything good comes from where?); so far as sin being exposed, His blood obliterates our sin.

CJ, I fully understand our declaration as justified, righteous standing, adoption, etc are all entirely based on the merit of Christ alone. But how does our "accountability" factor into the day of judgment?

The WCF 33.1 says, "all persons that have lived upon earth shall appear before the tribunal of Christ, to give an account of their thoughts, words, and deeds; and to receive according to what they have done in the body, whether good or evil." WCF 33.3 says, "As Christ would have us to be certainly persuaded that there shall be a day of judgment, both to deter all men from sin; and for the greater consolation of the godly in their adversity: so will he have that day unknown to men, that they may shake off all carnal security, and be always watchful, because they know not at what hour the Lord will come; and may be ever prepared to say, Come Lord Jesus, come quickly, Amen."

As the Confession says, all men will give an account of their thoughts, words and deeds. So in being "accountable," this surely seems to involve something other than our open acknowledgment and acquittal because of Christ. I mean, NO thought, word, deed we ever did as Christians will ever be done from 100% perfectly...but praise God that our filthy rags of "righteousness" are not the basis of our standing before Him, praise God for the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit, praise God for a new heart of flesh, etc...BUT if we are to give account on that day and if only our righteous acts are shown (and no sin of ours is manifested), we won't have anything to give account for! OR if only Christ's righteousness is shown, how would that be us giving "account" of our every thought, word, deed? Is not "giving account" detailing everything for the master...how good of stewards we were in his service?

Should not the warnings in Scripture of giving account on that day and of much-being-required-of us stir us to greater holiness? I mean, as Christians we don't live in fear of the condemning wrath of the Judge, but we do long to please our Father in all we do and to be good stewards of the knowledge, gifts, opportunities He's given us! As the WCF says, knowledge of this day should deter all men from sin. I am asking these questions because these are details I'm trying to reconcile in Scripture and am very interested in, and I want input to see what these things mean. It seems to me that "accountability" is often neglected in light of our acceptance with God in Christ (the "big picture" and extremely important)...but it seems that knowing we will be accountable should be something we always live in light of.

I know, it's challenging isn't it? Same for me. Why did you skip 33.2? The end of God's appointing this day?

 

[nwink]

I know, it's challenging isn't it? Same for me. Why did you skip 33.2? The end of God's appointing this day?

It sure is challenging and confusing! Sorry, the only reason I skipped 33.2 was because it didn't have anything specifically about "giving account." I was just attempting to make a point.

 

[seajayrice]

What would be the purpose of giving account without being accountable for the consequence? In other words the account referred to in 33.1 refers to all created beings. Will our account be Christ or something else? Not being dogmatic by any means, this is my current understanding. However, I am convinced that there immediate and dire temporal consequences to our sin, such as assurance and joy WCF 18.4. Have you seen Hodges work on the WCF? A Commentary on The Westminster Confession of Faith With Scripture Proofs By A. A. Hodge

 

[nwink]

What would be the purpose of giving account without being accountable for the consequence? In other words the account referred to in 33.1 refers to all created beings. Will our account be Christ or something else?

CJ, I'm not sure...I moreso asking specific questions rather than trying to establish a doctrine. That's a good point you mention, though, what the purpose of giving account would be without being accountable for the consequence. (But we do know we will have to give account!) I guess the purpose would be related to the whole rewards-issue (which is an issue I want to understand, as that is directly related)....to see what kind of stewards we were. I don't really have a full understanding of what "giving account" would involve. Our account will clearly be to God (Rom 14:12).

I think this can be a very practical issue. For example, when the Christian is in the midst of some strong temptation to sin, could not the tempter craft a clever argument saying, "Well, you can just repent when it's over and it'll be like you never sinned at all since God won't remember it and no one else will know you did it." But if our sin will be manifested on the day of judgment, when we're in temptation in this life, we'll know we'll have to give account for them. But regardless, we will on that day feel so elated and humbled and thankful to be openly acknowledged and acquitted of our sin for Christ's sake...and to then enter into the joy of the Lord to be blessed in fully enjoying God for all eternity!

(Please understand I'm not trying to establish a doctrine so much as trying to describe my thinking process in hopes that I can get some clarification and instruction on this issue.)

---------- Post added at 11:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:24 AM ----------

CJ, when I had before looked for old PB threads related to my questions in this thread, I didn't really find anything. But I tried looking for "rewards" and found some relevant threads on the subject of rewards:

http://www.puritanboard.com/f15/rewards-heaven-26568/
http://www.puritanboard.com/f15/doctrine-rewards-7731/
http://www.puritanboard.com/f46/judgment-elect-62491/
http://www.puritanboard.com/f15/temporal-merit-67266/

See this blogpost, too, from PB's own Dr Bob Gonzales: http://blog.rbseminary.org/2009/06/of-the-last-judgment-an-exposition-of-the-lbcf-xxxii/

But my questions still stand regarding if our sin will be manifest when we give account for every thought, word, deed.

 

[seajayrice]

What would be the purpose of giving account without being accountable for the consequence? In other words the account referred to in 33.1 refers to all created beings. Will our account be Christ or something else?

CJ, I'm not sure...I moreso asking specific questions rather than trying to establish a doctrine. That's a good point you mention, though, what the purpose of giving account would be without being accountable for the consequence. (But we do know we will have to give account!) I guess the purpose would be related to the whole rewards-issue (which is an issue I want to understand, as that is directly related)....to see what kind of stewards we were. I don't really have a full understanding of what "giving account" would involve. Our account will clearly be to God (Rom 14:12).

I think this can be a very practical issue. For example, when the Christian is in the midst of some strong temptation to sin, could not the tempter craft a clever argument saying, "Well, you can just repent when it's over and it'll be like you never sinned at all since God won't remember it and no one else will know you did it." But if our sin will be manifested on the day of judgment, when we're in temptation in this life, we'll know we'll have to give account for them. But regardless, we will on that day feel so elated and humbled and thankful to be openly acknowledged and acquitted of our sin for Christ's sake...and to then enter into the joy of the Lord to be blessed in fully enjoying God for all eternity!

(Please understand I'm not trying to establish a doctrine so much as trying to describe my thinking process in hopes that I can get some clarification and instruction on this issue.)

---------- Post added at 11:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:24 AM ----------

CJ, when I had before looked for old PB threads related to my questions in this thread, I didn't really find anything. But I tried looking for "rewards" and found some relevant threads on the subject of rewards:

http://www.puritanboard.com/f15/rewards-heaven-26568/
http://www.puritanboard.com/f15/doctrine-rewards-7731/
http://www.puritanboard.com/f46/judgment-elect-62491/
http://www.puritanboard.com/f15/temporal-merit-67266/

See this blogpost, too, from PB's own Dr Bob Gonzales: Of the Last Judgment: An Exposition of the LBCF XXXII | RBS Tabletalk

But my questions still stand regarding if our sin will be manifest when we give account for every thought, word, deed.

I have yet to find any insights that definitively address your question. I hope Rueben has some goodies. Dr. Bob's rebuttal to Blomberg seems to sum up the two schools of thought. I think the best way to approach the question is systematically, it is difficult to contemplate this accounting when reconciled with the work of Christ. Psa 51:7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. If you search under "good works" there are some helpful threads, this one I particularly enjoyed. http://www.puritanboard.com/f25/joined-hip-good-works-salvation-reformed-faith-69140/

 

[ThyWord IsTruth]

I think if you delve into Matthew 25 it may shed some light into your search. Christ is on the Mount of Olives answering the disciples questions on the sign of His coming and the end of the age. Before He talks about the judgment and separation of the sheep and the goats he lays down the parable of the Talents. I see this as what the judgment seat of Christ will be like. For the elect we will be judged on the gifts God has bestowed upon us and what we did with them. Since we have already been justified in Christ and are being sanctified by the Spirit, we will give account to the Lord for the goods he has given us.
Notice in Matthew 25:14 He says "For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them......"

Jesus is the man traveling to a far country, being at the right hand of the Father. He is the one who calls His servants, the elect and delivers His goods to them via the Holy Spirit. We are then held accountable for how we used those talents and our reward is in the kingdom of heaven. The part that gets me is that there seems to be a goat in the mix. I think it may be a common grace issue where non-elect are given talents by God but they are not used in the right way because they are unregenerate people and are inclined to evil only because they are still a slave to sin.

I hope this helps.

 

[moral necessity]

The point of the scapegoat in the OT was to bear our sins away, to illustrate the removal of our sins entirely outside of the camp forever. Christ likewise bore our sins outside of the camp, outside of the city, as Hebrews says. We don't ever have to fear our sins being brought back into view ever again. The account that we must give needs to be understood without damaging this precious truth, otherwise we end up with Christ not fully accomplishing his atonement as our scapegoat, and with him being unable to provide his sheep with a truly peaceful conscience that will rejoice at his coming, and not shrink away.

Blessings and fellowship!

 

[Scott1]

One way of approaching this deep set of questions would be to take the Chapter of the Confession you identified, and read and study the Scripture proofs for each statement and/or proposition of doctrine. Also, their immediate context.

In doing that, being careful to know God has not given us all the details or a great deal of specifics about the process except that, of a certainty, all men will give account.

Chapter XXXIII Of the Last Judgment
Westminster Confession of Faith

 

[jwithnell]

all persons that have lived upon earth shall appear before the tribunal of Christ, to give an account of their thoughts, words, and deeds; and to receive according to what they have done in the body, whether good or evil.

I believe it is helpful to divide this topic into two pieces. First regards how we are justified and sanctified -- by grace alone through Christ. We claim His righteousness as our own, and He makes us like Himself. We are now as fully justified and sanctified as we will ever be.

The second regards the accounting of our lives in light of what He has given us. Believing that we will not face judgment is one of the most pervasive failings in evangelical churches today. As the WCF states, we will have to give an account of our deeds. If God has given us riches, have we turned around and blessed others? Or have we spent it all in selfishness? As He has brought difficulties into our lives, have we yet been able to praise God and grow as the discipline intended?

That we will face judgment is certain, but as another has stated, we don't have all the details in the scriptures. We see that specific rewards are reserved for those who have been persecuted and that some will be in higher positions of responsibility than others. I've often wondered about how we will perceive the recounting of our sin, especially those committed after we came to Christ. Will we stand in wonder at the grace given despite our grievous sin? I've often thought that it would be unbearably sad to see both the purity of Christ (with our minds unclouded by the fall) and our sin in the same context. Perhaps we will come to love Jesus all the more as a result of this sadness. I don't know; we are not told.