Gospel Preaching

[Peters]

No faithful preacher will preach the Law by itself to sinners; they will always make sure that the Gospel comes in all its fullness to those poor crushed sinners also. Therefore, one cannot preach the Scriptures faithfully without preaching the Gospel of Christ, Christ and Him crucified. My question then is this:

Why do we have the distinct work of "œGospel preaching" as though there is any other kind of preaching?

 

[BobVigneault]

I have long contended that unless you are preaching the gospel then you are not preaching but simply teaching. Many pastors believe they are preachers because they stand in front of the congregation and speak. They are not preachers.

 

[Larry Hughes]

What Bob said!

And because in the NT times to today the Good News is the highlight (along with the Law, both in their proper CLEAR distinctions). There are many speech makers who pretend to "preach", many story tellers, many ethics and moralist teachers, many legal way only who pretend to preach - but none are.

Do their feet look blessed who bring Good News? If not????

I once had a family member say how great a Gospel message they heard their preacher preaching - it was as they put it "hell fire and damnation". And that was all. IF THAT is "good news" to you then you are either a spiritual masochist or an idiot par excellent.

Ever notice how Christ exhorted, "Your sins are forgiven you (indicative reality), Go and sin no more (imperative based on the indicative, not the other way around)

Ldh

 

[Robin]

I think the point, Larry, is that not many "preachers" KNOW what the Gospel is anymore.

I think our era is charged with the responsibility to re-educate them...by explaining what the Gospel is/is not.

Now, THAT isn't going to be comfortable, is it?

Has anybody had an opportunity to "correct" a pastor, either at a church service; wedding, funeral, or other? You know, those occasions when the pastor makes chitchat by asking you "what did you think of the sermon?"



Robin

 

[JKLeoPCA]

to all of the above !!

what passes for preaching in many churches, is not the gospel, but a history lesson, a moralistic story, a doctrinal summary, or a book report of whatever book the pastor just finish. It is a very sad commentary that most "preachers" can not find Christ throughout their Bible. Unfortunately in the "Evangelical" culture technique has trumped the evangel. There is a lack of faith that the Holy Spirit will work through the Word preached. It is no longer what you say, but how you say it.

 

[Robin]

Fellow brothers....take heart!

As dark as things are...Christ has yet promised to build His church. He has always been faithful to that promise, btw - no matter how bad it looks. Seemingly mundane signs of that Devine promise are heard and tasted each Lord's Day (Word & sacrament.)

Let us be those who proclaim the Gospel to any who will listen...and to uphold and encourage those pastors who do not cower or fall under the weight of their own sinfulness.

Remember, Christ said the "gates of hell will not prevail..."? Though we are faithless, He remains faithful.

R.

 

[Larry Hughes]

Robin,

Whole heartedly agreed. No it is not comfortable, one usually gets silence - as if to say, "What do you mean!"

L

 

[alwaysreforming]

Originally posted by JKLeoPCA

what passes for preaching in many churches, is not the gospel, but a history lesson, a moralistic story, a doctrinal summary, or a book report of whatever book the pastor just finish. It is a very sad commentary that most "preachers" can not find Christ throughout their Bible. Unfortunately in the "Evangelical" culture technique has trumped the evangel. There is a lack of faith that the Holy Spirit will work through the Word preached. It is no longer what you say, but how you say it.

You summed it up beautifully!

 

[Robin]

Originally posted by Larry Hughes
Robin,

Whole heartedly agreed. No it is not comfortable, one usually gets silence - as if to say, "What do you mean!"

L

Yep....maybe one or two will actually ask that question...then the fun begins! Sometimes, it's possible to get a "how DARE you?" or even a "I AM the pastor!" Hoo-boy, that's a fun one too!



r.

 

[Peters]

Are we saying that one of the distinctions between teaching and preaching is that one can faithfully teach the Scriptures and not teach the Gospel, but one can't faithfully preach the Scriptures and not preach the Gospel?

 

[JonathanHunt]

Marcos

Definately so.

We should be able to preach Christ from all the scriptures, and the evangel, the good news, should be popping up all the time as we preach with a good hermeneutic.

However, I feel that what you are saying MIGHT militate against specific evangelistic preaching, which is something I very much believe in. When you take a diet of three sermons a week, as many churches in the UK have, if in one of these you do not have in mind particularly the lost, then I think you are failing your church. We have a wide range of needs and persons to preach to, and the biggest division is simply the saved and the unsaved. I would certainly say that if you 'preach' and fail to say ANYTHING of relevance to those who are without Christ, then you are not preaching at all.

Many say that simply 'preaching the whole counsel of God' is enough, but the scripture is full of persuasive, direct, evangelistic appeal. We should take our lead from this!

JH

 

[Peters]

Good words, brothers.

Do you think that the Gospel of Scripture is designed exclusively for the salvation of the lost?

[Edited on 7-15-2005 by Peters]

 

[BobVigneault]

"Do you think that the Gospel of Scripture is designed exclusively for the salvation of the lost?"

May it never be! Not at all! The Gospel is both the means of salvation and santification. I need to hear the Gospel every time I 'feel' like I'm not measuring up to God's standards. More importantly, I need to hear the Gospel everytime I 'feel' like I AM measuring up to God's standards. Everytime I feel unworthy to be a part of His kingdom and everytime I think how 'lucky' God is to have me in his kingdom. The gospel turns our suffering into hope and empowers us to love as we ought. Believers need to hear the gospel every week.

 

[daveb]

Originally posted by JKLeoPCA
what passes for preaching in many churches, is not the gospel, but a history lesson, a moralistic story, a doctrinal summary, or a book report of whatever book the pastor just finish. It is a very sad commentary that most "preachers" can not find Christ throughout their Bible. Unfortunately in the "Evangelical" culture technique has trumped the evangel.

This is why many people find what is said in church irrelevant. They can hear moralistic stories at the rotary club and better self-help steps at the psychiatrist or support group.

Preachers should preach Christ, interpret Scripture properly and apply it with precision to the heart. If they are not doing this why would anyone come? They can get the other stuff somewhere else.

 

[Puritan Sailor]

Originally posted by daveb

Originally posted by JKLeoPCA
what passes for preaching in many churches, is not the gospel, but a history lesson, a moralistic story, a doctrinal summary, or a book report of whatever book the pastor just finish. It is a very sad commentary that most "preachers" can not find Christ throughout their Bible. Unfortunately in the "Evangelical" culture technique has trumped the evangel.

This is why many people find what is said in church irrelevant. They can hear moralistic stories at the rotary club and better self-help steps at the psychiatrist or support group.

Preachers should preach Christ, interpret Scripture properly and apply it with precision to the heart. If they are not doing this why would anyone come? They can get the other stuff somewhere else.

I agree. One of the failures of Reformed preachers today is to apply the gospel to the "felt needs" of the people. You have to begin there, not to just deal with those superficial problems (which is the mistake of the modern church), but tie all those problems to the root of them all, sin. Only then will people see their need of Christ as "relevant" to them.

 

[Robin]

Originally posted by maxdetail
"Do you think that the Gospel of Scripture is designed exclusively for the salvation of the lost?"

May it never be! Not at all! The Gospel is both the means of salvation and santification. I need to hear the Gospel every time I 'feel' like I'm not measuring up to God's standards. More importantly, I need to hear the Gospel everytime I 'feel' like I AM measuring up to God's standards. Everytime I feel unworthy to be a part of His kingdom and everytime I think how 'lucky' God is to have me in his kingdom. The gospel turns our suffering into hope and empowers us to love as we ought. Believers need to hear the gospel every week.

In a sense, both Peters and Bob's posts are quite correct!

Yes, the Scriptures are intended to save the lost With that comes the present sanctification of those justified AND the ongoing maturity of believers. Calvin notes, Christ is "restoring man's true humanity " - as Christ IS the true Imago Dei. Sin has so damaged the Imago Dei that even though we are presently clothed in Christ's righteousness -- sin plagues us until death: the final reminder how terrible the Fall was; or Christ's return. The Scriptures accomplish what Christ has begun in us - for they are His Word - and ARE Christ, in a sense, because He is the Logos.

Each time the Gospel is proclaimed from the pulpit, it is as though Christ was standing RIGHT THERE calling His own to faith. (!)



r.

 

[Larry Hughes]

Marcos,

Bob is right on the $.

Amen x infinity. Think of it like a war torn country & from your view you & experience for the most part you by sight see & experience what appears to be defeat. You've heard good news that victory is on your side won by your King - but you have but yet to see for the most part its fullness. The enemy is constantly attacking, constantly dropping propaganda leaflets about your impending doom. Experietially, you get dragged down to doubt the victory you heard. Doubt & despair begin to set in - in increasing measure. Then along comes a messanger & he basically just reiterates only what you already know, it all looks bad & you have no hope unless you youself can fight your way out. Of course you realise the utter futility of this. How much power/encoragement would you get from that! This is how many preach & call it Gospel/good news.

Now, conversley along comes a messanger, and after stating the situation announces again, "BUT...your King has saved you do not loose heart." And he extols the greatness & power of your King, what He has done, not you, brings you a very special fellowship meal - a taste of the Kingdom YOU WILL arrive at inspite of the way things seem presently. Now that gives you fuel and power to go on. Such is a preacher rightly dividing and delivering Law & Gospel, all others are confused blind men leading blind men. Wolves terrorize or lull the sheep, but shephards bring them in line, then comfort & defend them.

Yes, the Gospel MUST be preached every Sunday to the flock & the pure Gospel - that is the ONLY Gospel. Only those who treasure it never tire of counting it every day. Those who get bored with it despise it & treasure their self-righteousness, that they count and fawn over & over again.

Ldh

 

[Robin]

Larry!!!


r.

 

[Contra_Mundum]

Originally posted by Robin
Has anybody had an opportunity to "correct" a pastor, either at a church service; wedding, funeral, or other? You know, those occasions when the pastor makes chitchat by asking you "what did you think of the sermon?"

I can only remember doing this once. I think it was in seminary, and a visiting professor preached at our church for worship. I asked him afterward why there was nothing (so far as I could tell) distinctively Christian about the message (It was from Joshua). He said he had a duty to preach the text, and not import ideas into it. I countered with, "Yes, but they teach us here that no sermon we preach should be able to be assented to (or preached) by either a Unitarian or a Jew."

He agreed to think on that.

 

[Larry Hughes]

Bruce,

I understand that. I was just talking to a friend of mine today about a form of "expository" preaching that excessively isolates a text. So that if a text happens to be in a heavy Law only or exhortation passage a pastor may only preach that thinking they are delivering "whole counsel". Some might call this atomizing the text under the "idea" of expositing it.

Yet, as my friend and I reminded each other Paul didn't write Romans 1:18-ff, send it off and say at the end..."more to come in a month". No, he wrote whole letters, whole thoughts and at that the context of ALL of Scripture is assumed.

In greater times when Scripture as a whole was more grasped one could quote a verse to a group and the group would understand the context of the verse and not just the verse isolated. This is why Jesus and the Apostles could quote OT in the NT accounts and it meant something to THAT specific audience. Yet, today when we read the NT, often without bothering the OT, we just glaze over it as a "nice spiritual sounding OT quote" but have almost no clue as to its OT historical meaning. Today more than ever whole text need to be read, isolated verses simply are misunderstood too easily.

E.g., Kind of like today if I say we are saved by "faith alone". If I say that for example on this BB, I'm pretty safe in assuming the true meaning is grasped. But in the general church, more than likely not. In reformation time it was short hand containing "by the means of faith given the free gift of God's grace - my sin imputed to Christ Who bore the wrath due me and His righteousness imputed to me, so that it is just as if I never sinned and attained all righteousness on account of Christ alone - is received". Or some similar formulation. BUT today to quote "faith alone" in the wrong crowd could mean anything from arminian faith, some substance induced from within to faith in faith to faith in anything to faith is what justifies a man being a meritorious work itself.

Ldh

 

[Peters]

Excellent points. I am uncomfortable with the idea of "œGospel preaching" as a work distinguished from Bible teaching, because it seems to be subtly rooted in the erroneous notion that the Gospel is not for sanctification. Usually, therefore, sanctification becomes nothing more than dutiful list keeping (usually the lists of men and their traditions, I might add) instead of nurturing a continuous looking to Christ in the Gospel. I think this has become the way of things because of a poor or narrow view of the Gospel. No longer is the Gospel this big explosive thing, a great objective reality that declares to all of creation that Jesus Christ is Almighty God, Creator of everything seen and unseen, infinite in power and wisdom, dwelling in the unapproachable light of His glory. You cannot divorce the Gospel from Christ´s person, and you cannot turn one page of Scripture and miss the person of Christ. To preach the Gospel is to preach the person of Christ in all His fullness and the grace of this extends to believer and unbeliever alike. The Gospel is a declaration of the Glory of Christ. I would love to see this come back to the Church. I need the Gospel just as much now as I did before I was saved.

I understand that. I was just talking to a friend of mine today about a form of "expository" preaching that excessively isolates a text. So that if a text happens to be in a heavy Law only or exhortation passage a pastor may only preach that thinking they are delivering "whole counsel". Some might call this atomizing the text under the "idea" of expositing it.

This is an excellent point.

 

[Robin]

Never read a Bible verse....find out what the book/letter means.

r.

 

[BrianBowman]

Originally posted by Robin
Never read a Bible verse....find out what the book/letter means.

r.

... and I would add: study to discover how the book/letter integrates with the whole of Scripture in the original cultural and linguistic context(s).

 

[JohnV]

Originally posted by BrianBowman

Originally posted by Robin
Never read a Bible verse....find out what the book/letter means.

r.

... and I would add: study to discover how the book/letter integrates with the whole of Scripture in the original cultural and linguistic context(s).

I would add: set yourself a regimen by which you go through the Bible on a regular basis. Don't think you know the context until you lose count how many times you've been through from beginning to end.

I used to think of it this way: I go to church twice a Sunday, for 52 weeks a year, and go to about seven extra services of worship in that time. That's about 111 sermons a year. What did I gain from that? I've been doing that since I was two. Now I'm 52. Have I learned anything? That compares to how many hours of classroom lectures? At least enough to earn a degree of some kind. I should have a masters in Theology by now? So what happened to me?

But this is about preachers preaching. And I think the problem is two-fold: we don't give the preachers enough respect for their holy calling; and second, preachers give themselves too much self-importance, as if their personal views are licenced for expositing rather than the articles of faith set down in the Confessional standards of the Church. It seems that almost every other doctrine requires a personal perspective to it, which overshadows the doctrine. Compare that to the teachings of the Puritans, where, no matter the personal views, these were clearly overshadowed by the doctrine being taught. We have to do an analysis of Edwards preaching to figure out where he stand on various views; while today we have to do an analysis of modern preaches to figure out where they stand on various doctines, though we know their views very well: they are known by their stand of certain secondary topics.

But too many of us like it that way: we want to hear our favourite topics "preached".


Well, that's my beef. I can stand to listen to and empathize with just about anyone's view, but not from the pulpit. I can discern others' struggles with knowledge and faith, but I don't want to hear Christ's Word confined to the fallible views of one man. The Church ought to keep a tighter lid on what may and may not be preached, as I see it. But, that's my beef with the way things are.

[Edited on 7-16-2005 by JohnV]