Greek Question - 2 Thess 2:4

[sastark]

I know we have another discussion on 2 Thess going on in the Revelation and Eschatology forum, but I was hoping that I could ask a question regarding the Greek text of verse 4.

I'm no Greek scholar, and so I was hoping someone here on the board could help me out.

I have been told that the Greek word translated "sitteth" (in the old KJV) is "kathisai" (transliterated) which is the aorist infinitive of the verb "kathizo" ( 1- to make to sit down (in the sense of conferring an appointment or kingdom on someone) or it can be used intransitively 2- to sit down; to sit (as in "œto settle" or "œto settle down" (abode or dwelling)).)

Is there any creedance to this assertation?

The person who told me this then goes on to say that "the aorist tense "“ if in relationship to time, it denotes a description of an action that is past".

The conclusion this person comes to is:

"Look at how it is worded, "œhe as God sitteth in the temple of God" shows forth this meaning. In fact it does not even denote that the "œhe" must actually sit literally in the temple. It is saying that the "œhe" is sitting (remember the definition of kathizo) "œas God" or more importantly "œas God sitteth in the temple." Or, he is sitting as if he were God sitting in the temple. He is sitting (settling, or taking the place of) as (like, in the same manner as) God-sitting-in-the-temple."

Could someone who knows Greek please enlighten me as to whether or not what this person is saying is correct?

The only tool I have with me right now is the KJV Greek Lexicon available at crosswalk.com. It says that the Greek word is "Kathizo" and that it is an active verb.

Please help!

 

[Poimen]

An intransitive verb does not have a direct object; a transitive verb does. In the case of 2 Thessalonians 2:4, kathizo does have a direct object in the immediate context ("the temple of God"). The problem however is that the action is not being applied to the temple of God (as per the word "in"). He is not sitting the temple but sitting in the temple (btw, intransitive verbs can have prepositions added to their makeup without changing their status as intransitive verbs).

Thus the major lexicons (BAGD) and most translations render this verb here as intransitive: "he sits"

"so that he in the temple of God to sit while proclaiming himself that he is God" (my literal translation)

The infinitive has several meanings: purpose, result, time, cause, means, and complementary. Since this clause begins with (wste) which indicates result or purpose it seems right to say to say that the result of his rebellion against God (2 Thessalonians 4:4a) is to sit in the temple and to proclaim himself as God.

In other words, I don't agree with the person's exegesis. I believe that he actually sits in God's temple. The question now is where, and what is the temple?

[Edited on 5-3-2005 by poimen]

 

[sastark]

Rev. Kok- Thank you for your input. I had never heard this "translation" of 2 Thess 2:4 before, and was therefore suspicious. I think you've cleared it up quite nicely.

Yes, the question is "where and what is the temple", but we've got another thread for that question.

In case it becomes necessary in the future, may I have your permission to quote your post?

[Edited on 5-3-2005 by sastark]

 

[Poimen]

Originally posted by sastark
Rev. Kok- Thank you for your input. I had never heard this "translation" of 2 Thess 2:4 before, and was therefore suspicious. I think you've cleared it up quite nicely.

Yes, the question is "where and what is the temple", but we've got another thread for that question.

In case it becomes necessary in the future, may I have your permission to quote your post?

[Edited on 5-3-2005 by sastark]

Well it depends where. Also I wouldn't mind hearing from a few others who are trained in Greek to see if my assumptions/assertions are correct before you post it lest you expose my ignorance to the larger Reformed community.

 

[sastark]

Haha. Well, the only place it would possibly get quoted would be on my blog. You can see it here: http://www.xanga.com/sastark

 

[Poimen]

Originally posted by sastark
Haha. Well, the only place it would possibly get quoted would be on my blog. You can see it here: http://www.xanga.com/sastark

That should be alright. Post it and see what people have to say.

 

[VanVos]

Kenneth Gentry said about the word Kathisai:

The phrase "so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God" is interesting. When hoste ("so that") is followed by an infinitive (kathisai, "to sit"), it indicates a purpose intended, not necessarily a purpose accomplished.[27] It was Caligula's intention to sit in "the temple of God" in Jerusalem; it was the emperor's desire to "show himself that he is God." In fact Philo tells us that "so great was the caprice of Caius [Caligula] in his conduct toward all, and especially toward the nation of the Jews. The latter he so bitterly hated that he appropriated to himself their places of worship in the other cities, and beginning with Alexandria he filled them with images and statues of himself."[28]

[27]As in Luke 4:29, where the Jews led Jesus to a hill "so as to cast him down" (hoste katakremnisai auton). Ernst Best, Commentary on First and Second Thessalonians (London: Black, 1977), 286-290. H. E. Dana and Julius R. Mantey, A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament (Toronto: Macmillan, 1955), 214.

[28]Philo, Legatio ad Caium 43, as cited by Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History 2:6:2.

Does anyone agree?

VanVos