Help With Eph 1:4-5

[Unprofitable Servant]

This is a fairly minor issue, but I would like some help if someone knows anything about this.

During the process of Scripture memorization, I have been working on starting to memorize Ephesians. I have chosen to use the KJV. In verse 1:4, the end reads, "that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:". The "in love" seems to be a state in which we are before Him, or perhaps a state in which He holds us before Him.

This morning, I read this verse in the ESV (on E-Sword, I don't have a paper copy) and it is different, saying "before him. In love" then goes on to verse 5: "he predestined us...".

It seems that in the KJV, "in love" is part of being before Him "holy and without blame", while in the ESV, love seems to be the motivation for predestination, a part the sentence which is mostly in v.5.

Can someone help me here? I don't know Greek, or anything about how translators decide where to put punctuation. I do know that the verse breaks are man's addition, and that's not my issue. It seems here that the sentence ending is pretty important. I almost wish I had never opened another version- perhaps someone can help me understand instead of being frustrated?

 

[hammondjones]

Well, there are some long sentences in Ephesians, and Ephesians 1:3-14 is one of them. It's really quite an impressive thing, really. You kind of get the impression that Paul is so breathlessly excited that he can't help himself. The translators have chosen to put the periods where they have because it makes sense in English, and you get a pretty good flow and structure as it is in the ESV (in love, in him, in him, in him). I guess those would be "in whom"'s if it were one sentence.

I have personally found it helpful to not memorize verse numbers when I'm learning chunks of scripture, because, for me, it helps me focus on the natural flow of thought. Maybe this might help you. Actually, I just memorized this myself, and I repeat it both ways (in love he predestined - in love, having predestined).

 

[Alan D. Strange]

Justin:

This is strictly a matter of the verse break. "In love," as you can see, occurs at the end of v. 4 and if properly a part of that reads, "holy and faultless in the presence of him [or his presence] in love." If it more properly belongs with v. 5 (and I think it does; it makes considerably more sense there to me), then, of course, it is saying that "in love, he chose us beforehand [my translations]."

Let me encourage you not to be distressed about seeing it this way. This is not a question of textual transmission or even translation, but punctuation (which is not in the original) and determining which phrase belongs where. I think that you are enriched to know this because--think of it--this points to the reality that there was never a time when He did not love you. He predestined you in love. His love for you precedes time and space. I think from every angle it makes more sense to put the "in love" with the beginning of v. 5. At any rate, it should cause no distress.

Peace,
Alan

 

[Romans922]

Justin and Alan,

Even though this is difficult to figure out. The question is it part of the phrase that precedes it or comes after it? The reality is is that it is one long sentence that all goes together. And can and probably should be applied to both what comes before and after. Taking it as a both/and works, doesn't contradict other Scriptures, and has good meaning.

That is that is that the choosing us in Him before the foundation of the world is based in love, and His predestination of us to adoption is based in love.

 

[Unprofitable Servant]

Upon further reflection, I suppose the overall meaning is the same- whether the "in love" is part of the sentence about being predestinated to the adoption (v.5) or whether it is part of Him having "chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world" (v.4), the point is as Alan puts it- there never was a time He did not love us.

Looked at like that, it's a lot less "frustrating" (as I put it before). The "big picture" of this passage is the same either way, and I think that's what you're saying, isn't it, Andrew?

Brandon, not including the verse references in my memorization might help. I started to do longer passages in order to ingest the "flow" of His word as opposed to individual verses. I'll give that a try for the rest of the book.