Whitefield
Puritan Board Junior
I have only one thing to say to the security guard who told a group of high school students to stop singing the National Anthem on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial - "Here's your sign."
Here's Your Sign
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Scottish Lass
Puritan Board Doctor
At the end of the article, apparently it would have been fine if they had moved literally 25 feet away, but that space was "content-neutral".
puritan628
Puritan Board Freshman
Obedience is better than sacrifice.
My
:
1. Was there any indication that the area was "content-neutral"? (Not that I think that's appropriate, but if there's no sign, then there's no reason to think the singing would be objectionable).
2. There are locations in our country (The Alamo, for one), where there ARE signs posted that instruct visitors that since this is a place where war heroes died, proper decorum means a quiet, reverent atmosphere. (Obviously the Lincoln Memorial is not such a site.)
3. It seems to me that if the students had re-located to the "proper" location and started again (even if it DID "spoil the moment"), they would have provided a very STRONG testimony by their obedience by also by their perseverance.
In conclusion, even though I think the rule of having a "content-neutral" site at a national monument is somewhat of an oxymoron, and don't agree with it, what do we demonstrate by our disobedience in this type of case? Even though the students were not fined, they could have been, which would not have served their futures well.
"Pick your battles" comes to mind. Singing in front of the Lincoln Memorial? Or refusing to go to the back of the bus?
My
:1. Was there any indication that the area was "content-neutral"? (Not that I think that's appropriate, but if there's no sign, then there's no reason to think the singing would be objectionable).
2. There are locations in our country (The Alamo, for one), where there ARE signs posted that instruct visitors that since this is a place where war heroes died, proper decorum means a quiet, reverent atmosphere. (Obviously the Lincoln Memorial is not such a site.)
3. It seems to me that if the students had re-located to the "proper" location and started again (even if it DID "spoil the moment"), they would have provided a very STRONG testimony by their obedience by also by their perseverance.
In conclusion, even though I think the rule of having a "content-neutral" site at a national monument is somewhat of an oxymoron, and don't agree with it, what do we demonstrate by our disobedience in this type of case? Even though the students were not fined, they could have been, which would not have served their futures well.
"Pick your battles" comes to mind. Singing in front of the Lincoln Memorial? Or refusing to go to the back of the bus?
puritan628
Puritan Board Freshman
Thank you Andrew -- you said it MUCH more concisely than I did! LOL If we don't like the rules, we can work to change them.
kvanlaan
Puritan Board Doctor
How does the nation's own anthem violate "content neutrality" as a concept??? If they sang "Dixie" or "God Save the South", then I understand completely (sort of). But the nation's own anthem? If it is not a place where a reverent quiet is expected (as at the Alamo - in which case they should indeed refrain from singing, as quiet is explicitly required), how does the singing of the national anthem violate this rather odd requirement?
---------- Post added at 10:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:06 PM ----------
Agreed - but how does the singing of the national anthem violate this rule?
---------- Post added at 10:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:07 PM ----------
In any case, something is still rotten in the state of Denmark...
---------- Post added at 10:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:06 PM ----------
Agreed - but how does the singing of the national anthem violate this rule?
---------- Post added at 10:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:07 PM ----------
In any case, something is still rotten in the state of Denmark...
Staphlobob
Puritan Board Sophomore
I disagree because I think this is a false dichotomy as they are intimately related to one another, especially given the "content" of the song (National Anthem) in question. In other words, being ordered to stop singing the National Anthem IS being ordered to the back of the bus.
LawrenceU
Puritan Board Doctor
Kevin is right. How on earth is singing the National Anthem something that is non-neutral. The Lincoln memorial is a United States memorial for goodness sake. The National Anthem is the anthem of the United States. I guess that patriotism is now something of which to be ashamed and relegated to a second place status in this nation. The only safe route is to have no allegiances to anything. Or, if you do then never express it in public. The next thing you know they will require the flag to be furled on the parade route if the parade passes by a foreign embassy, consulate, mosque, or any other place that contains someone who might take offense or misunderstand.
Good grief.
Good grief.
puritan628
Puritan Board Freshman
Kevin, I most definitely understand your perspective, and I also see that in our society we've "turned the other cheek" on so many things that we practically have no national identity left; therefore, salvaging every scrap of patriotism should be of utmost importance. I do get extremely tired of America-bashing and Christian-bashing to the total exclusion of any other nationality or creed.
Additionally, as the other Kevin mentioned, how can the national anthem violate the concept of "content neutrality"? I wonder where "content neutrality" is defined, and by whom. But then, after one has researched said definition and how and when the rule was put into place, perhaps someone (or group) should work to amend it. Just because we don't like a rule or think it's a stupid rule doesn't mean we can arbitrarily break the rule.
Rich Koster
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Did the guy who asked them to stop singing have on swastika armbands or hammer and cycle ? No, wait a minute, they would push for singing the anthem. Or is it they want to CHANGE the national anthem? This is stupidity to the Nth power.
Whitefield
Puritan Board Junior
I assume the security guard was in uniform and an employee of the United States. If so he was in violation of 36 U.S.C. § 301 (b)
Rich Koster
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
He was probably giving the patented BHO "crotch salute" (drooped arms & clasped hands up front).
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