Im almost Done with reformed.

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Free Christian

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Hi all. I have been with reformers for several decades. Im almost done.
Seriously.
Some will know me from here years ago.
A number of yrs ago I was going to a reform church in Victoria, I won't go into details but it was very dissapointing.
Very much so. No support.
Recently another supported them, I got more verbal support from a company im China I did some product reviews on.
Recently tried to reach out to a church here in Oz that was going through issues, nothing, zero.
Ill be honest, im done. Even here a few yrs ago i asked a question here n there.
All I saw was people arguing against each other to show who knew more, who had more knowledge. One was even a pastor here in Australia. I sat back seeing nobody answer me, instead everyone try to outdo each other with knowledge. I got no help.
I even said "hey, anyone got an answer!?" Phew, forget it, the competition went on.
So, recently here in Oz iv been through the same thing. Reach out, nothing. You know once here in Oz my wife and I travelled many kilometres to a country reformed church. We were the only people there other than the minister and his family. What happened. We drove half way home and ate our lunch on the side of the road. Another time I wrote something, asked the minister "what did you think" reply "id need to write a book to correct it"!
Im done....
Goodbye reformers, im out.
Spend your lives correcting each other and proving who is more intelligent.
Im done...
 
Have you asked the question here?

(but yeah, not being invited to lunch at the country church is pretty crazy)
 
Brother,

I don't know you or the situation except what you tell me and so I speak with reserved judgment, but I've been Reformed long enough to say that yes, there are many quadrants where what you say is true. It's a shame and a disgrace. Some persons in the Reformed camp think the faithful way to be a brother is to just pelt all the right positions at others, and they forget the weightier matters of the Law. It doesn't work out. It kills churches. I'm not guiltless.

I only encourage you, don't give up on the church itself. There are faithful churches--faithful to Scripture and faithful to each other--and they don't need to have a Reformed label. Find pastors and elders who will care about your soul, and brothers and sisters who will look after you. And in all things, as you desire strength, endeavor to strengthen your brethren.

I'll say a prayer for you.

As this was recently posted, I'll repost it.

"What Majoring on the Minors Will Do To You" - Stephen Steele
 
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Hi Brett,
I recall when you first started posting here. I never thought you were ignored: many people responded and tried to help you on the numerous threads and posts you made, so I'm sorry you felt that way.

I do wonder if your expectations are reasonable. It seems in every example you list you had very specific expectations or needs, which you didn't make known necessarily, but were disappointed when they weren't met. Could that be part of the problem?
 
Brother,

I don't know you or the situation except what you tell me and so I speak with reserved judgment, but I've been Reformed long enough to say that yes, there are many quadrants where what you say is true. It's a shame and a disgrace. Some persons in the Reformed camp think the faithful way to be a brother is to just pelt all the right positions at others, and they forget the weightier matters of the Law. It doesn't work out. It kills churches. I'm not guiltless.

I only encourage you, don't give up on the church itself. There are faithful churches--faithful to Scripture and faithful to each other--and they don't need to have a Reformed label. Find pastors and elders who will care about your soul, and brothers and sisters who will look after you. And in all things, as you desire strength, endeavor to strengthen your brethren.

I'll say a prayer for you.

As this was recently posted, I'll repost it.

"What Majoring on the Minors Will Do To You" - Stephen Steele
I needed to read this article this morning and was blessed by it. It spoke to my soul. Thank you for sharing it.
 
I hated the Reformed community from 2009-2012. I was affected by Auburn Avenue's implosion of the La. Presbytery in the PCA. It put me and my family in ecclesiastical limbo. I had questions about EO that most Reformed couldn't answer. I was angry at everybody, namely a certain Reformed educational institution.

I get where you are coming from. I really do. I realized, though, I wasn't being fair to all the data.
 
Hi all. I have been with reformers for several decades. Im almost done.
Seriously.
Some will know me from here years ago.
A number of yrs ago I was going to a reform church in Victoria, I won't go into details but it was very dissapointing.
Very much so. No support.
Recently another supported them, I got more verbal support from a company im China I did some product reviews on.
Recently tried to reach out to a church here in Oz that was going through issues, nothing, zero.
Ill be honest, im done. Even here a few yrs ago i asked a question here n there.
All I saw was people arguing against each other to show who knew more, who had more knowledge. One was even a pastor here in Australia. I sat back seeing nobody answer me, instead everyone try to outdo each other with knowledge. I got no help.
I even said "hey, anyone got an answer!?" Phew, forget it, the competition went on.
So, recently here in Oz iv been through the same thing. Reach out, nothing. You know once here in Oz my wife and I travelled many kilometres to a country reformed church. We were the only people there other than the minister and his family. What happened. We drove half way home and ate our lunch on the side of the road. Another time I wrote something, asked the minister "what did you think" reply "id need to write a book to correct it"!
Im done....
Goodbye reformers, im out.
Spend your lives correcting each other and proving who is more intelligent.
Im done...
When I feel this way, I sometimes remind myself that the Lord must be pretty tired of me too.
His patience with me is infinite...his waiting for me to come to my senses is never ending.
He smiles upon me in my failures...and extends an open hand upon my refusals to grasp.
Remember that you are the Lord's, and he has placed you where you are.
Sometimes when you are wanting something - that might be your time to give something.
Your example of patience...your bearing with other people's burdens...your prayers for others...your longsuffering...
Be to others what Christ is to you.
He will answer your questions in due time, and will send his sheep to help you along as you need it.

Blessings and prayers...
 
I think you are being unfair accusing people of debating for the only reason to show who has more knowledge. Some of us love the truth and we debate out of conviction and we want to see God honored.

One’s beliefs are rooted in Scripture, the Word of God. We are Reformed because we believe that is what our Lord and Savior who died for us teaches. Our beliefs and convictions should not be swayed by the behavior, good or bad, of others. Truth is truth, human behavior cannot change what it is.

I am sorry you have not been loved well and sinned against. But if that is the reason you are walking away from Reformed theology, well, I have trouble believing that. I would urge you to have an honest look at why you are doing what you are doing.
 
Brother,

I don't know you or the situation except what you tell me and so I speak with reserved judgment, but I've been Reformed long enough to say that yes, there are many quadrants where what you say is true. It's a shame and a disgrace. Some persons in the Reformed camp think the faithful way to be a brother is to just pelt all the right positions at others, and they forget the weightier matters of the Law. It doesn't work out. It kills churches. I'm not guiltless.

I only encourage you, don't give up on the church itself. There are faithful churches--faithful to Scripture and faithful to each other--and they don't need to have a Reformed label. Find pastors and elders who will care about your soul, and brothers and sisters who will look after you. And in all things, as you desire strength, endeavor to strengthen your brethren.

I'll say a prayer for you.

As this was recently posted, I'll repost it.

"What Majoring on the Minors Will Do To You" - Stephen Steele
Thanks for posting the article. As one studying for ministry and becoming more settled in my convictions, I am reminded not everyone holds the same beliefs that I do. The gospel must be our primary focus. At the same time we must recognize there are others around us who don't necessarily believe all the finer points like we do but yet are loved by Christ.
 
For a small window of time, I felt done with my denomination as it has been revealed so many claim to support 1689 2LBCF yet have so many pastors holding out exceptions involving "New Covenant" theology and an extremely low view of the Ten Commandments and the Old Testament as a whole.

I was extremely disheartened after a long debate with a pastor friend of mine.

Coming back to school after Easter break with so many nominal Roman Catholics helps a lot in keeping perspective.

I am praying for you, OP.
 
Some of what you say is true. If one peruses most social media consistently, you can see the militancy and sectarianism within the ranks of the Reformed. Lots of seeming arguing. * The unregenerate world is watching. There is a right way to debate and there is a wrong way. PB is not Facebook, and the conversations are amongst believers and a bit encapsulated w/ mediation. This helps. But we all here have seen things go south fast at times.

I myself was one of those guys for a long time; my history here on Puritan board would attest to that, and I repent of it. Generally, the Reformed are academics. The other day at my church, a bunch of men got together to pray. We went around the room and introduced ourselves. In the midst of that meeting, the participants gave witness about their lives, careers and faith; it was pretty astounding. We had CEOs of big businesses, a number of military men that were colonels w/ greater than 20 yrs, most all of them had a number of degrees. I thought to myself, this is so funny, because I couldn’t hold a candle to any of them. But they were not being haughty or prideful; these men were kind and gentle souls. But I digress, I’m just saying this to show you that the reformed are thinking people.

Paise God, one of the ways I get around this type of thinking and attitude, the militancy and sectarianism, I just spoke of, was through deep prayer. One has to get to the place, where one needs to understand that people are at different levels. This to include leadership in the church. The church is a weak organism and has many faults. But since Christ bears with those infirmities, so should we. But I see less of this compassion within the ranks of the reformed. Sadly. Consider the snake handling Christians.

If I am understanding you, As far as support would go from a local church, that’s gonna be a bit sketchy at best if you’re not attending regularly and don’t have membership. If you don’t have any local churches closer to you, that may be a problem because driving long distances to a church is problematic on a few fronts. Keep in mind, it takes time to build a relationship; whether that be w/ a pastor or church body. Have u invested this time? Consider the relationship u have w/ your bride. This didn’t happen overnight.

when I have questions of particular needs, I must have realistic expectations in contrast to this relationship I have built or am building. A pastor may not want to invest too deeply or get into difficult doctrines w/ u if u are new to them. Believe it or not, they’re still checking you out-and this is a good practice, because we know that there are wolves in sheep’s clothing.

Lastly, I do not find the shimmer any longer in saying I am Reformed. It used to have a luster (or though I thought), but that is about gone now. I will not lump all the Reformed into the same camp, most are not militant; but the years I have invested in the discipline has done me more bad than good and that could be on me as militancy attracts militancy.

I was a clanging cymbal for a long time; now, I am for the underdog and those that are less able to understand rationale theology, which in my opinion is, much of the church; . I love my neighbor and try and love the Lord my God with all my heart-and of course, fail miserably. Keep in mind my brother, the church is where we go to worship God. Aside from all its blemishes, it is Christ who we are attending to. Not the pastor, not the members, but Christ. Yes, u would hope for more of the former, but if it is lacking, be encouraged, Christ is aware. Go to church anyways. Pray hard and go worship Christ. See the weaknesses in those next to you and be as Christ would be toward their weaknesses. Again, pray.

Addendum for clarity:

“more bad than good”

In my case, I was using my knowledge and waving the reformed banner as a sword and battle ax, when I should have been humbled by the grace given me by the Lord Jesus Christ. This is exactly why u don’t let children play w/ matches and explosive devices.
 
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Hello Brett @Free Christian ,

I'm sorry to hear your story – and history – with some Reformed churches! As the church age winds down and we draw nearer the end of the last days, there will be more diluting and spiritual failure in all churches across the board, i.e., all denominations.

I am irrevocably Reformed / Presbyterian (R&P), as the Reformed distinctives, i.e., their doctrines and practices, were very life and sanity to my heart, having come out of non-Reformed sorts of spirituality which left my wretched heart in continual deep failure – and yet, there have been times when R&P churches in my area were either non-existent or seriously off-track (such that I could not even bring friends to visit). And so I went to other churches that were in better spiritual shape, and with decent pastoral leadership, where the men were, for the most part, godly and sound.

So if you are R&P in your own heart – loving the doctrine and practice of their confessional standards – whatever actually exists in the area you live in, don't cast the baby out with the bath water, but go to a church that is more spiritually mature with a mature leadership, even if it is not Reformed.

It is quite possible to hold to the Reformed truths in your heart, even if a church you attend – and even become a member of – does not. What matters is, is Jesus Christ present by His Spirit in the place. You can tell the pastor(s) how you differ from them, but give your word that you will not promote views contrary to their own standards and doctrine, and so be disruptive. If you yourself are a godly person, they will likely be glad to have you among them.

I know these things from experience.
 
Not sure this is a factor, but no reformed church in your area that maintains the faithful pursuit of right ministry of the word, sacraments, and discipline?

Sometimes the pursuit of the perfect misses the blessings of the imperfect.
 
Are you almost done or are you done? What are you switching to instead? I noticed you haven’t replied to anything on this message thread yet. Have you read anything here yet? I’m new here but my understanding is the people here put alot of time, effort, and love into trying to help answer your questions. Was that completely insufficient for you as well? I just left a charismatic church for a reformed one. I was not happy with some of the practices and lack-thereof but it was because of my devotion to Jesus and responsibility of leading my young family to be followers of him that we left. That should be your primary goal whatever you decide to do if you find yourself in such a position. Regardless, we had a potluck before we left to say goodbye to all our friends. There is a right way and a wrong way to leave and you only get one opportunity to do it and then it’s on your conscience for life. Maybe you could take some time to thank people for their efforts or make a few concessions instead of just storming out. We are commanded to do things with gentleness and respect after all.
 
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Hello,

I'm truly sorry you feel that way. I can somewhat relate to the difficulties in finding answers, and I think it's something that the American posters may take for granted without necessarily realising the breadth and prevalence of Reformed theology in the U.S., as well as the number of churches and suitable Pastors therein. There are also a lot of excellent theological institutions there which seemingly have ties to many churches as well.

I'd say it's definitely worth reaching out further afield and looking up some of the Pastors or institutions in the U.S. that resonate with you. I've done that in the past and if I have a question, that's where I go.

As far as debate is concerned, I think that's the double-edged sword of Reformed theology and its practitioners; of all the denominations I've seen, this is by far the most academically inclined. Seeking to understand is a huge aspect of Reformed faith and arguably one of the core principles that spurred the Reformation in the first place, so I think especially on a forum dedicated to it, you're bound to see discussion and debate even when requesting information. Similarly, this is by far the most proactive denomination as far as iron sharpening iron is concerned.

It's easy to be disheartened, but I think understanding the sheer desire to better understand one's own position as well as the position of others is important and actually illuminating, because it's a rare event that happens in most things anymore, especially theologically. Most of what we see practiced and preached now is very much 'milk' and not 'meat'. Processing the latter requires more effort than the former.

Good luck, brother.
 
This brother does not appear to be responding to anything, so all the comments while very encouraging may be falling on deaf ears.
 
There is some validity that online reformed circles tend to be prideful, with many brothers puffing themselves up and being abrasive towards one another. In particular I’ve been greatly bothered by the animosity between Presbyterians and Reformed Baptists. To be completely candid, I have felt at times as though many Presbyterians do not love RBs.

But it’s important to point out that in person, and in churches, the experiences are quite the opposite; reformed men and women are hands down the kindest and most loving people I have ever met. Also I have never met a Presbyterian in person who wasn’t kind. So what does this all mean? I suspect the internet can be a stumbling block at times. Especially in matters that may be contentious by nature.

It’s also critically important to remember that we all must seek the truth in regard to correct doctrine; for one to give up on a particular denomination due to hurt feelings would not make sense if they were holding truth and orthopraxy in its proper position of priority.

My loving suggestion would be to distance yourself from online groups for an extended season. Stay with God’s people in person though and do not forsake it.
 
There is some validity that online reformed circles tend to be prideful, with many brothers puffing themselves up and being abrasive towards one another. In particular I’ve been greatly bothered by the animosity between Presbyterians and Reformed Baptists. To be completely candid, I have felt at times as though many Presbyterians do not love RBs.

But it’s important to point out that in person, and in churches, the experiences are quite the opposite; reformed men and women are hands down the kindest and most loving people I have ever met. Also I have never met a Presbyterian in person who wasn’t kind. So what does this all mean? I suspect the internet can be a stumbling block at times. Especially in matters that may be contentious by nature.

It’s also critically important to remember that we all must seek the truth in regard to correct doctrine; for one to give up on a particular denomination due to hurt feelings would not make sense if they were holding truth and orthopraxy in its proper position of priority.

My loving suggestion would be to distance yourself from online groups for an extended season. Stay with God’s people in person though and do not forsake it.

Sound advice, friend.


I think I’ve observed some of that between Presbyterians and Reformed Baptists as well, which is one of the reasons I was so delighted to discover that the Free Presbyterian Church of North America (FPCNA) exists! What a treasure where paedobaptists and credobaptists can worship and serve the Lord together for more than 70 years! What a peculiar jewel.

We plan to move to Greenville and join a FPCNA church there, Lord willing, this summer as a result.
 
Sound advice, friend.


I think I’ve observed some of that between Presbyterians and Reformed Baptists as well, which is one of the reasons I was so delighted to discover that the Free Presbyterian Church of North America (FPCNA) exists! What a treasure where paedobaptists and credobaptists can worship and serve the Lord together for more than 70 years! What a peculiar jewel.

We plan to move to Greenville and join a FPCNA church there, Lord willing, this summer as a result.
I think that at the ecclesiastical level the divide is necessary for both logistical reasons and for the purpose of genuine unity in doctrine. Though I admire your desire for Christ’s visible body to be unified. I hope you have a blessed Lord’s Day today brother.
 
Dear Brett,

All of us, from time to time, get so wrapped up in our situation that we can see nothing but from our perspective. Your sense of being done with Reformed really does not have to do so much objectively with the truth and glory of the Reformed faith (it's the gospel, after all), but with your subjective situation, whatever has gone into making up your current view of things.

Your sense of how bad Reformed folk can be in this or that way falls short of the truth of the matter. We are far worse than you've expressed! And so are you! You escape no judgment that you feel toward or seek to bring against others. You don't. And neither do I nor anyone else here.

At the heart of the Reformed faith is the understanding that, bad as we all are, this is just why our Lord Jesus came: to live and die for us miserable sinners, so that we might die to sin and live with him forever. He came to save his people from their sins. No other tradition but the Reformed one gets that so clearly and a bit more objective reflection on your part will bear the truth of that inwardly. To put it another way, you must know in your heart of hearts that the Reformed faith is the truth of God. If your faith is in the true and living God, you can no more be truly "done" with the Reformed faith than you can be done with God himself.

Whatever disputes we have among ourselves or however badly we may seem to present our glorious God to others, the Reformed faith is the truth, the way of our Lord, who is the truth, and it is that truth alone which sets us free. You can no more leave that than leave Him if you are his and trust in Christ alone.

I pray that you have eyes to see that all your present disappointments and discouragements should just that much more drive you to Him alone who has the words of life and that the Reformed faith is simply the clearest and best expression of the gospel that this poor sin-benighted world has ever heard. I call you not to abandon it, but to repent and return to it.

Peace,
Alan
 
This brother does not appear to be responding to anything, so all the comments while very encouraging may be falling on deaf ears.
It's ok - these comments are good for posterity. I've had many questions and problems addressed just by Puritanboard results showing up on Google.
 
While he may have seen the first few responses, the thread author has not been back to the board since the day the thread was created. I see no reason to keep the thread open. Closing.
 
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