Is Gambling Ethical?

[etexas]

From a W. C. Fields movie:

Man: I thought this was a game of chance.
Fields: Not the way I play it.

I voted against casino gambling all three times it was on the ballot here in California because I knew they were lying when they said lots of the money raked in would go for education. I was right - many school systems are still starved for money, while some of these Indian "tribes" (most of whom I'd never heard of before) are raking in HUGE money. Plus, some of the wealthy tribes are trying to cut out the poorer tribes from the cash flow. Disgraceful.

Yet another reason I oppose gambling, a lot of what you just described has also happened in Oklahoma. It is disgusting........those who want to think it a Christian thing, I have one question: If the Good Lord came back would you like it to be in a casino?

 

[tcalbrecht]

Yet another reason I oppose gambling, a lot of what you just described has also happened in Oklahoma. It is disgusting........

I think we can all agree to separate government corruption from gambling per se. Otherwise we should be condemning all sex because there are prostitutes in the world.

You need a better argument than activity A may lead to activity B.

And you also need to demontrate that greed is the root of all gambling activity.

those who want to think it a Christian thing, I have one question: If the Good Lord came back would you like it to be in a casino?

Only if I were winning.

Honestly, since it is a matter of indifference, it really wouldn't matter if I were in a casino or having a beer or driving my car.

 

[etexas]

I think we can all agree to separate government corruption from gambling per se. Otherwise we should be condemning all sex because there are prostitutes in the world.

You need a better argument than activity A may lead to activity B.

And you also need to demontrate that greed is the root of all gambling activity.



Only if I were winning.

Honestly, since it is a matter of indifference, it really wouldn't matter if I were in a casino or having a beer or driving my car.

Really, you would be happy if the Lord came back while you had a whiskey in one hand a cigar in the other and were sitting in front of a blackjack table..........? Brother you tell me I need to prove something? Look at what you said. May God have mercy on you.

 

[jenney]

Legalism is when you attempt to impose on someone else restrictions which God has not given in His Holy Word. You are free to impose them on yourself, but no one else.

Is it? Do we have a Biblical basis for that definition? Do we even have a consensus on it?

When I say the word "legalism" I mean the belief that our works are meritorious in the sight of God, that we somehow add to our justification. That was the Galatian error, not adding to the law of God. Adding to the law is wrong, but that doesn't make it legalism.

By your definition, anything can be legalism. I know dear sisters in Christ (here on the PB!) who believe it is clear from Scripture that all Christian women are to cover our heads in public. I am not of this conviction. Should I consider them legalists? I do not believe that women are to speak in church. My friend Meg is part of a church where a woman might even give the sermon. Should she call me a legalist because she interprets those passages differently, so she could say those restrictions are not clear to her in Holy Writ, thus I am the legalist for imposing them upon her?

I agree we are only bound by that which is expressed in Scripture and have liberty with those things that do not, however, that is not the same thing as legalism. At least not what I mean by legalism.

Didn't Bob Howes (blhowes) start a thread on this very subject a few weeks ago?

 

[Dagmire]

My understanding of legalism is trying to follow a set of rules to be righteous.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

It's not a matter of what can't we do, but of what we can do. We're suppose to walk in the Spirit and do the things which are pleasing to God.

 

[VaughanRSmith]

Really, you would be happy if the Lord came back while you had a whiskey in one hand a cigar in the other and were sitting in front of a blackjack table..........?

Single or double malt?


Just kidding with ya

 

[Casey]

WLC Q. 142. What are the sins forbidden in the eighth commandment?

A. The sins forbidden in the eighth commandment, besides the neglect of the duties required, are, theft, robbery, man-stealing, and receiving anything that is stolen; fraudulent dealing, false weights and measures, removing landmarks, injustice and unfaithfulness in contracts between man and man, or in matters of trust; oppression, extortion, usury, bribery, vexatious lawsuits, unjust enclosures and depredation; engrossing commodities to enhance the price; unlawful callings, and all other unjust or sinful ways of taking or withholding from our neighbor what belongs to him, or of enriching ourselves; covetousness; inordinate prizing and affecting worldly goods; distrustful and distracting cares and studies in getting, keeping, and using them; envying at the prosperity of others; as likewise idleness, prodigality, wasteful gaming; and all other ways whereby we do unduly prejudice our own outward estate, and defrauding ourselves of the due use and comfort of that estate which God hath given us.

 

[tcalbrecht]

Is it? Do we have a Biblical basis for that definition? Do we even have a consensus on it?

That was not intended to be an exhaustive definition. It was more of an example. Pharisaism and legalism are closely related.

Requiring conformity to a standard of behavior other than the Word of God for oneself or another person with a view to spiritual merit is a form of works-righteousness.

 

[tcalbrecht]

Really, you would be happy if the Lord came back while you had a whiskey in one hand a cigar in the other and were sitting in front of a blackjack table..........?

I wouldn't mind, and I don't think He would be too much concerned based on what I read in Scripture. We all have to be doing something.

Brother you tell me I need to prove something? Look at what you said. May God have mercy on you.

Is there an official "holy position" (external activity) one needs to be found in when Jesus returns? Or is this suggestion merely a quaint form of pietism? Maybe we need a "WWJD" bracelet with this on it.

 

[etexas]

That was not intended to be an exhaustive definition. It was more of an example. Pharisaism and legalism are closely related.

Requiring conformity to a standard of behavior other than the Word of God for oneself or another person with a view to spiritual merit is a form of works-righteousness.

I am not talking about works-salvation, I am talking common sense, Jesus warned "watch" when he said that do you think he meant "Watch for me in a gambling den or a hash-bar."? Look, he died for our sins, when we say it does not matter where we are or what we are doing when he returns we come pretty close to trampling the cross of Christ underfoot.

 

[tcalbrecht]

WLC Q. 142. What are the sins forbidden in the eighth commandment?

A. The sins forbidden in the eighth commandment, besides the neglect of the duties required, are, theft, robbery, man-stealing, and receiving anything that is stolen; fraudulent dealing, false weights and measures, removing landmarks, injustice and unfaithfulness in contracts between man and man, or in matters of trust; oppression, extortion, usury, bribery, vexatious lawsuits, unjust enclosures and depredation; engrossing commodities to enhance the price; unlawful callings, and all other unjust or sinful ways of taking or withholding from our neighbor what belongs to him, or of enriching ourselves; covetousness; inordinate prizing and affecting worldly goods; distrustful and distracting cares and studies in getting, keeping, and using them; envying at the prosperity of others; as likewise idleness, prodigality, wasteful gaming; and all other ways whereby we do unduly prejudice our own outward estate, and defrauding ourselves of the due use and comfort of that estate which God hath given us.

This portion of the catechism seems to be concerned with extreme behavior. Does “idleness” mean that I can’t take a nap after I come home from work? Or does it mean an aversion to all forms of meaningful work? Likewise, “prodigality” means “extravagant wastefulness”. The “wasteful” in front of “gaming” is a similar modifier. Certainly not all forms of “gaming” are being condemned, otherwise why the modifier? If it is always “wasteful” to drop a few bucks in a casino then it must be just as wasteful to visit a big league ballpark or attend the opera.

It think the catechism leaves plenty of room for a sanctified conscience working within the boundaries of Christian liberty in this (and other) areas.

 

[tcalbrecht]

I am not talking about works-salvation, I am talking common sense, Jesus warned "watch" when he said that do you think he meant "Watch for me in a gambling den or a hash-bar."? Look, he died for our sins, when we say it does not matter where we are or what we are doing when he returns we come pretty close to trampling the cross of Christ underfoot.

So, we are really talking about subjectivism. Such an attitude may appear common sensical to you, but it does not to me. And I am not called to subject my Christian liberty to someone else’s “common sense”.

Since Jesus does not describe the correct physical posture in which we are called to “watch” (unless to take an extremely literal view of the story of the virgins and their oil lamps) this doesn’t really seem to be much of an issue. If you can make a case for drinking whiskey in a bar as objectively sinful, then such activity is to be avoided at all time, not just when Jesus is about to return. Likewise with gambling.

All you are left with is pious sounding advice that, frankly, does not resonate with all believers, esp Reformed ones.

 

[etexas]

So, we are really talking about subjectivism. Such an attitude may appear common sensical to you, but it does not to me. And I am not called to subject my Christian liberty to someone else’s “common sense”.

Since Jesus does not describe the correct physical posture in which we are called to “watch” (unless to take an extremely literal view of the story of the virgins and their oil lamps) this doesn’t really seem to be much of an issue. If you can make a case for drinking whiskey in a bar as objectively sinful, then such activity is to be avoided at all time, not just when Jesus is about to return. Likewise with gambling.

All you are left with is pious sounding advice that, frankly, does not resonate with all believers, esp Reformed ones.

Fine, Tom. Have it your way. Be at Caesars Palace in Vegas when the Saviour comes. That is your deal, sorry I care about a fellow Christian. And I do care,I was not trying to bust your chops, I think things like that matter. Grace and Peace.

 

[mgeoffriau]

Fine, Tom. Have it your way. Be at Caesars Palace in Vegas when the Saviour comes. That is your deal, sorry I care about a fellow Christian.

Why take that tone? How can you follow that argument to its logical end? Would you wish to be in the movie theatre when Christ returns? Watching TV? Surfing the internet? Reading? Going to the bathroom? Eating some McDonalds?

I just don't buy it. No man knows the date. If it's permissable within the bounds of Christian liberty, then you have no right to burden another Christian's conscience with your qualms about the activity. If it's not permissable within the bounds of Christian liberty, then it should not be done. Period.

 

[Dagmire]

I don't think your tone is good or called for either, Max. You are putting forth one position and others are responding that they don't hold the same position. They have used Scripture, catechisms, logic, reason, and exposition of all of those things to put forth their positions. And you, quite frankly, are being very dismissive of everyone's opinion but your own. Someone calmly puts forth that they don't agree with you and you say "Fine, be that way. Be in a casino when the Savior comes."

I don't think that's necessary.