Katrina: Caused or Allowed?
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Me Died Blue
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
He sovereignly and actively ordained it, and brought it about by means of natural, secondary causes. This thread contains a sampling of much of the Scriptures that warrant the belief that such is the case with every single event in history. A few that may stand out as particularly applicable to the current question are:
-Job 36:22-33 "œBehold, God is exalted in his power; who is a teacher like him? Who has prescribed for him his way, or who can say, "˜You have done wrong´? Remember to extol his work, of which men have sung. All mankind has looked on it; man beholds it from afar. Behold, God is great, and we know him not; the number of his years is unsearchable. For he draws up the drops of water; they distill his mist in rain, which the skies pour down and drop on mankind abundantly. Can anyone understand the spreading of the clouds, the thunderings of his pavilion? Behold, he scatters his lightning about him and covers the roots of the sea. For by these he judges peoples; he gives food in abundance. He covers his hands with the lightning and commands it to strike the mark. Its crashing declares his presence; the cattle also declare that he rises."
-Psalm 135:6-12 "œWhatever the LORD pleases, he does, in heaven and on earth, in the seas and all deeps. He it is who makes the clouds rise at the end of the earth, who makes lightnings for the rain and brings forth the wind from his storehouses. He it was who struck down the firstborn of Egypt, both of man and of beast; who in your midst, O Egypt, sent signs and wonders against Pharaoh and all his servants; who struck down many nations and killed mighty kings, Sihon, king of the Amorites, and Og, king of Bashan, and all the kingdoms of Canaan, and gave their land as a heritage, a heritage to his people Israel."
-Isaiah 45:7 "œI [God] form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things."
-Amos 3:6 "œIs a trumpet blown in a city, and the people are not afraid? Does disaster come to a city, unless the LORD has done it?"
-Nahum 1:3-6 "œ"¦His [God´s] way is in whirlwind and storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet. He rebukes the sea and makes it dry; he dries up all the rivers; Bashan and Carmel wither; the bloom of Lebanon withers. The mountains quake before him; the hills melt; the earth heaves before him, the world and all who dwell in it"¦the rocks are broken into pieces by him."
-Job 36:22-33 "œBehold, God is exalted in his power; who is a teacher like him? Who has prescribed for him his way, or who can say, "˜You have done wrong´? Remember to extol his work, of which men have sung. All mankind has looked on it; man beholds it from afar. Behold, God is great, and we know him not; the number of his years is unsearchable. For he draws up the drops of water; they distill his mist in rain, which the skies pour down and drop on mankind abundantly. Can anyone understand the spreading of the clouds, the thunderings of his pavilion? Behold, he scatters his lightning about him and covers the roots of the sea. For by these he judges peoples; he gives food in abundance. He covers his hands with the lightning and commands it to strike the mark. Its crashing declares his presence; the cattle also declare that he rises."
-Psalm 135:6-12 "œWhatever the LORD pleases, he does, in heaven and on earth, in the seas and all deeps. He it is who makes the clouds rise at the end of the earth, who makes lightnings for the rain and brings forth the wind from his storehouses. He it was who struck down the firstborn of Egypt, both of man and of beast; who in your midst, O Egypt, sent signs and wonders against Pharaoh and all his servants; who struck down many nations and killed mighty kings, Sihon, king of the Amorites, and Og, king of Bashan, and all the kingdoms of Canaan, and gave their land as a heritage, a heritage to his people Israel."
-Isaiah 45:7 "œI [God] form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things."
-Amos 3:6 "œIs a trumpet blown in a city, and the people are not afraid? Does disaster come to a city, unless the LORD has done it?"
-Nahum 1:3-6 "œ"¦His [God´s] way is in whirlwind and storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet. He rebukes the sea and makes it dry; he dries up all the rivers; Bashan and Carmel wither; the bloom of Lebanon withers. The mountains quake before him; the hills melt; the earth heaves before him, the world and all who dwell in it"¦the rocks are broken into pieces by him."
Thanks Chris,
This was the verse I had singled out before. I wasn't sure what type of answer I would get on this site, but you made me happy. If you were to ask that question in a more mainline church etc. they would probably throw you out the door.
It's a sad case these days when church goers deny that God ordains these things.
-J
Puritanhead
Puritan Board Professor
Originally posted by Laura
Why does the guy holding the sign have to look so reluctant? I jump up and down (inwardly) to see posts like Chris's.
I jump up and down (inwardly) to see women that don't complain about divine sovereignty. How many did I befriend in college that struggle with it? Or the ones I would goto church with and when we come home, they linger in doubt and pose questions of worry. A sovereign God comforts me!
Puritanhead
Puritan Board Professor
It all comes back to "In the beginning God..." as R.C. Sproul, Jr. says.
Bladestunner316
Puritan Board Doctor
Ryan jumped up and down like a college girl!!!(but os di I at posts like chris).
Me Died Blue
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Originally posted by Laura
Why does the guy holding the sign have to look so reluctant? I jump up and down (inwardly) to see posts like Chris's.
Thanks.
Interesting...I actually never noticed that about that smiley before.Indeed it is sad to see so much denial and just confusion and even apathy on such issues in favor of a more vague, politically correct outlook. Everyone here definitely stressess the full integration and application of God's sovereignty and His other attributes and doctrines into every sphere of life, such as events like this one.
WrittenFromUtopia
Puritan Board Graduate
God causes everything. He is not the author of sin.
WrittenFromUtopia
Puritan Board Graduate
[Moderator's Edit for Excessive, Gratuitous, and Superfluous usage of the
smiley][Edited on 10-2-2005 by joshua]
Laura
Puritan Board Junior
Seriously, what is the deal? Could it be in the fallen nature of women in particular to worry, and so we prefer to hang onto that? Maybe the second part of Genesis 3:16 points to this - "Your desire shall be for your husband,
and he shall rule over you" - if that means that women will try to usurp the role of men. Am I stretching it?
[Edited on 10-2-2005 by Laura]
and he shall rule over you" - if that means that women will try to usurp the role of men. Am I stretching it?
[Edited on 10-2-2005 by Laura]
Larry Hughes
Puritan Board Sophomore
Luther would also add to this evil - meaning the sufferings of this life, natural disasters, sickness, injuries, loss of job and so forth - that it is God's alien work driving us to His proper work.
That in such sufferings, like Katrina, the believer or the one to be a believer is broken and driven to Christ seeking mercy. That through wrath, by faith, he/she finds the hidden God - just as is with the cross of Christ. Likewise the unbeliever, sees this wrath, suffering and all he/she sees is either no God OR the unbeliever (theologian of glory) sees THIS as God's proper work as opposed to His alien work. You might recognize such theologians of glory (i.e., every false religion even false Christian religion in disguise) for they always view such disasters as "judgment" upon a wicked city or people for not improving themselves morally per se. If you listened closely concerning these two hurricanes you heard in the national news such theologians of glory from Muslems saying it was Allah judging to the Falwell types saying pretty much the same thing only directed to more gross pagan cities and peoples, as if anyone of our own dinner tables deserve less.
Luther would say the true theologian of the cross, believer, sees these for what they are, to drive us to Christ. In wrath the believer sees mercy and only faith can 'see' this.
The best example of this, and the clearest in Scriptrue is the two thieves being crucified along side of Christ. One is a unbeliever theologian of glory religion (the way of Cain) and the other a theologian of the cross. Note that the unbelieving thief sees this/his suffering and Christ's not as wrath meeting grace but wrath only. Being crucified right next to God he does not see God at all but flings mockery and scorn from his own cross. The second thief, in the very same pain and suffering, feels and experiences the wrath but yet by faith alone he sees that next to Him is God the Son and says, "Lord remember me when You arrive in Your kingdom." Jesus promise the second eternal life.
Ldh
That in such sufferings, like Katrina, the believer or the one to be a believer is broken and driven to Christ seeking mercy. That through wrath, by faith, he/she finds the hidden God - just as is with the cross of Christ. Likewise the unbeliever, sees this wrath, suffering and all he/she sees is either no God OR the unbeliever (theologian of glory) sees THIS as God's proper work as opposed to His alien work. You might recognize such theologians of glory (i.e., every false religion even false Christian religion in disguise) for they always view such disasters as "judgment" upon a wicked city or people for not improving themselves morally per se. If you listened closely concerning these two hurricanes you heard in the national news such theologians of glory from Muslems saying it was Allah judging to the Falwell types saying pretty much the same thing only directed to more gross pagan cities and peoples, as if anyone of our own dinner tables deserve less.
Luther would say the true theologian of the cross, believer, sees these for what they are, to drive us to Christ. In wrath the believer sees mercy and only faith can 'see' this.
The best example of this, and the clearest in Scriptrue is the two thieves being crucified along side of Christ. One is a unbeliever theologian of glory religion (the way of Cain) and the other a theologian of the cross. Note that the unbelieving thief sees this/his suffering and Christ's not as wrath meeting grace but wrath only. Being crucified right next to God he does not see God at all but flings mockery and scorn from his own cross. The second thief, in the very same pain and suffering, feels and experiences the wrath but yet by faith alone he sees that next to Him is God the Son and says, "Lord remember me when You arrive in Your kingdom." Jesus promise the second eternal life.
Ldh
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