Labeling non-Christians as Christians

[jbergsing]

On the Albert Mohler show today (or at least as much of it as I heard), he addressed the perplexing problem of non-believers being labeled as believers. This yanked a memory out from deep within my brain files. I had a close friend some years back that committed suicide over losing his girlfriend. I remember being at his funeral and listening to the minister talking about him as a devout Christian who was now in Heaven with God. I knew my friend very well (though not well enough to know he was capable of suicide), and I know he was not someone who believed in God at all. I was not a Christian at the time, either. Throughout the ceremony, the minister and the guy (an uncle) who delivered the eulogy, painted a picture of someone who simply didn't exist! I wondered who arranged the service and what they were doing. I wrote it off as this minister simply trying to ease the pain of the mourners. I also remember thinking Christianity being nothing more than a fraud and these guys helped to confirm it.

I wonder why this takes place at all. Why do people, both non-believers and believers, label others, living and dead, as believers when there is no evidence nor confession of it? As I said before, I believe it is done to make others feel better about an otherwise negative situation. But does it benefit anyone to lie to them about such an important topic? I will not deny it is a difficult thing to accept the fact that some of my friends and family will not be with me in Heaven.


Any thoughts?

 

[Herald]

In the sad situation you cited it could be possible for believers to delude themselves into thinking the person was a actually a believer, or at least hold on to the possibility that they may have come to faith in Christ without anyone else knowing about it. This is a way to try and ease grief. It's not right, but it is understandable.

I've often wondered what I would say if I were to officiate at a funeral of an unbeliever. What would I say? Would I provide the grieving family members with false hope? Would I publicly announced that their loved one was probably unsaved and suffering in hell? Actually I would probably use the occasion to proclaim the gospel to the living.

 

[alwaysreforming]

I think this happens a lot because the people speaking at funerals don't want to appear "judgmental", and that it would be a horrible thing for them to stand over the body and pronounce how he is now in the most terrible agony and torment that will last for all eternity as he suffers God's wrath against him.

It seems like after somebody dies, the least one could do would be to say something NICE about the person!

And I agree with the above, it does seem like an awesome time to present the Gospel.

 

[BobVigneault]

Two and a half years ago my daughter was in a car accident and her soon-to-be-born daughter was killed. Our grand-daughter was so beautiful and perfect. She was dressed and put into a little coffin. I was asked to speak and I wrestled long and hard over what to say. My daughter was not a believer and neither was the cruel boyfriend. The pastor gave some nonsense about how her name was Aurora and she was like a star and she's in heaven now and accidents are totally out of God's hands but he cries with us.

The following is the text of what I said and I believe it follows our Lord's example in a similar situation:

Thank you friends, for coming to pay your respects and for your prayers and your encouragement. Thank you so much.

Many will no doubt respond to the death of my grand-daugther and the injuries and hurt to my daughter as a senseless tragedy. My response so far has been a mix of anger and sorrow. I apologize to those I have been angry with, I thank those who have tried to soothe our sorrow.

Now, I don't want these events to be remembered in any way as senseless or meaningless, and I certainly don't won't my grand-daughter's death to be the cause of misguided angry actions and angry tears; so what can we do, how should we respond?

The gospel of Luke tells us that long ago in a town called Siloam a tower collapsed and 18 people died in what appeared to be a senseless tragedy. In an attempt to find meaning in this people concluded that these 18 must have been greater sinners than everyone else. When they asked Jesus if they were indeed greater sinners he gave the only appropriate response to that question: he said, "No, but unless you repent, you will likewise perish."

"Unless you repent, you will likewise perish" There. Now the death of my grand-daughter and the hurt and sorrow to my daughter has become the occasion for a call to repentance. In doing this, I follow the example of my Lord and also, I consecrate both the sorrow of Tiffany and and death of Aurora.

Let us turn from our sinful lives, turn from our rebellion against God, turn to Jesus Christ as the Creator, the Savior, the Soveriegn Lord. If you hear His voice, turn and call upon His name while you still can.

If you will it will not be in vain. For the Word of God tells us that

He who did not spare his own Son,

Yes, WE would have spared my grand-daughter. Yes, Tiffany would have spared her daughter, and yes WE would have spared these young people this deep sorrow. But God didn't! and as senseless as it seemed at the time-God did not spare his OWN Son,

but gave him up for us all--how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?

Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died – more than that, who was raised to life – is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Even in tragedies such as these we enjoy so much of God's mercy. Repent, turn from your rebellion, turn to Jesus. Call out to Christ while you still can and to God be the Glory.

 

[ReformedWretch]

Can someone save what Bob said for my funeral please?

 

[ReformedWretch]

 

[No Longer A Libertine]

Not to be disrespectful or macabre but unbelievers typically don't hold the "Christian" funerals, relatives might arrange something and it makes the funerals extra sad to attend but the truly secular funerals have an honest thread to them as well.

For instance when Graham Chapman of Monty Python perished from the AIDS he contracted through living his life as a homosexual he requested that people curse him during the eulogy just to provide an ironic alternative to traditional grieving, he wanted Cleese to be the first man to use four letter words at a funeral just as he had been the first to use them on British television.

"I hope he fries!" were the rehearsed closing words of John Cleese as they scattered Chapmans ashes into the wind.

He was gone and that was that, the pagan truly has to justify away his grieving because he can't justify truly grieving in the modern concepts of life and death. What better place has he gone to? And why would he be there?

It was going to happen, death that is, what did you expect, that is the underlying motto of post modern secularism. Now go fill your days with unadultereated pleasure to take your mind off of your purposeless and accidental existence, no time to mourn.

In actuality however God has undoubtedly used the earthshaking pain of death to awaken people to the fact that He exists and cannot be ignored or denied.

The perverseness of death makes the unbeliever uneasy and if they are honest they have to encounter head on what life is truly about and why it is that death if so natural is incomparably wicked.

 

[No Longer A Libertine]

Another personal example of a horrific thing that occured was that a man named Kyle Lake, who was a "relevent" church minister in Waco, Texas died at the age of 32 doing a Baptism during a Sunday service.

He died before his wife, young children and a bunch of scared collge kids' eyes on parents weekend of 2005.

He was a nice man, not a preacher of the gospel however and that is something he will have to answer for.

The tragic circumstances of his death naturally inspired great compassion and sympathy but the fruits despite good intentions (much like the church itself) were mostly rotten.

Apparently that church service, the stage was always littered with state of the art digital technology and wires for every gee wiz gizmo imaginable for the David Crowder Band to use.

The irony is this idolatry for technology being the main gimic of the church led to his demise.

A microphone he reached for was not grounded and he dropped it into the pool built into the stage before he could reach for the child he began to scream for help and be electrocuted to death in front of a disbelieving audience.

A truly astonishing and tragic event.

However his subsequent funeral was nearly equally disturbing.

His last "sermon" had been a Emerson like poem he wrote about dirty diapers and living life to the fullest. No mention of Christ, redemption, the need for that savior. Just a nice little poem you would likely find in a coffee table book.

Being his last writing it was distributed and read as though it were Luther's 95 Theses, it is my displeasure to report to you that t-shirts, mugs and a short film revolving around the poem were made and sold.

My RUF pastor was in attendance and deeply grieved that out of this union of community pastors who spoke at his epic funeral, not one proclaimed the gospel of Jesus Christ and instead resorted to pleasent nothings and sweet little lies.

I can't speak for the salvation of Kyle Lake, as tragic as his death was, in life he was a father, a husband, a friend to many but a preacher of the gospel he was not.

I only pray that God has plans to either reform the church he once was apart of or to disband it altogether and direct those college kids into Biblical folds.

Sadly this ordeal continues to be dramatic as the family has sued the makers of much of the electrical equipment that caused his death for allegations of faulty wiring.

 

[BobVigneault]

Adam, I can...when is it scheduled?

Adam, check your driver's license, there should be an expiration date on there.

 

[Rev. Todd Ruddell]

Dear Board,

My father died a couple of years back, at age 73. He had lived in rebellion to God most of his life, and even toward the end, when a profession of faith was made, there was really not enough time left in his life to witness to its fruitfulness--only the Lord knows, and that is enough for me. I was asked to speak at his funeral, and instead of proclaiming his "accepting Jesus" I spoke to those in attendance from Psalm 90.12: "Teach us to number our days, that we may apply our hearts unto wisdom". I spoke of my fond remembrances of the life he lived, the good example of hard work and diligence he was to me, etc., but my father and I were not particularly close, especially as it regarded my faith, and going into the ministry. However, I reminded them of the brevity of life, the sinful state of man, the necessity of repentance and faith in Christ, all without a word as to whether or not my father was in a "better place".

The puritans held sparse funerals, if at all, out of fear of venerating the dead, etc. and other superstition. I think the post that began this thread points up that folly they were trying to avoid. I try to use funeral sermons as an opportinity to press Christ to the living--they're more inclined to hear at that time than many others.

 

[govols]

"Unless you repent, you will likewise perish" There. Now the death of my grand-daughter and the hurt and sorrow to my daughter has become the occasion for a call to repentance.

Let us turn from our sinful lives, turn from our rebellion against God, turn to Jesus Christ as the Creator, the Savior, the Soveriegn Lord. If you hear His voice, turn and call upon His name while you still can.

If you will it will not be in vain. For the Word of God tells us that

Sorry for the loss of your grand daughter!

My pastor is often asked to speak at funerals and the ones that he doesn't decline he often states (not knowing if they were a believer or not) that if "Billy Bob" were standing before you today he would say: < Pretty much what was quoted above >. That kind of covers if Billy Bob is in hell or rejoicing with his Savior.

 

[jbergsing]

If I implied I would announce to the grieving that he is now in hell, please forgive me. I couldn't do such a thing. Obviously, that would be cruel. It would seem to me, as others have posted, to be a golden opportunity to present the Gospel to the living.

 

[jbergsing]

Two and a half years ago my daughter was in a car accident and her soon-to-be-born daughter was killed. Our grand-daughter was so beautiful and perfect. She was dressed and put into a little coffin. I was asked to speak and I wrestled long and hard over what to say. My daughter was not a believer and neither was the cruel boyfriend. The pastor gave some nonsense about how her name was Aurora and she was like a star and she's in heaven now and accidents are totally out of God's hands but he cries with us.

The following is the text of what I said and I believe it follows our Lord's example in a similar situation:

Thank you friends, for coming to pay your respects and for your prayers and your encouragement. Thank you so much.

Many will no doubt respond to the death of my grand-daugther and the injuries and hurt to my daughter as a senseless tragedy. My response so far has been a mix of anger and sorrow. I apologize to those I have been angry with, I thank those who have tried to soothe our sorrow.

Now, I don't want these events to be remembered in any way as senseless or meaningless, and I certainly don't won't my grand-daughter's death to be the cause of misguided angry actions and angry tears; so what can we do, how should we respond?

The gospel of Luke tells us that long ago in a town called Siloam a tower collapsed and 18 people died in what appeared to be a senseless tragedy. In an attempt to find meaning in this people concluded that these 18 must have been greater sinners than everyone else. When they asked Jesus if they were indeed greater sinners he gave the only appropriate response to that question: he said, "No, but unless you repent, you will likewise perish."

"Unless you repent, you will likewise perish" There. Now the death of my grand-daughter and the hurt and sorrow to my daughter has become the occasion for a call to repentance. In doing this, I follow the example of my Lord and also, I consecrate both the sorrow of Tiffany and and death of Aurora.

Let us turn from our sinful lives, turn from our rebellion against God, turn to Jesus Christ as the Creator, the Savior, the Soveriegn Lord. If you hear His voice, turn and call upon His name while you still can.

If you will it will not be in vain. For the Word of God tells us that



Yes, WE would have spared my grand-daughter. Yes, Tiffany would have spared her daughter, and yes WE would have spared these young people this deep sorrow. But God didn't! and as senseless as it seemed at the time-God did not spare his OWN Son,



Even in tragedies such as these we enjoy so much of God's mercy. Repent, turn from your rebellion, turn to Jesus. Call out to Christ while you still can and to God be the Glory.

WOW! That was really powerful. Thank you for sharing this.

 

[Chris]

Brother bob,

That's powerful. Thanks for sharing that.