Lord's day = Sunday ?

[cupotea]

I always think Lord's Day is on Sunday, but recently one brother asked
me to show him the explicit biblical support for this ( he means showing
a Bible verse stating Lord's Day is on Sunday), could somebody help?

Another question, did God ask Adam, Noah, Abraham to honor Sabbath?
or just when Israelites left Egypt and journeying through the wilderness
the Lord commanded them to honor the Sabbath?

 

[toddpedlar]

I always think Lord's Day is on Sunday, but recently one brother asked
me to show him the explicit biblical support for this ( he means showing
a Bible verse stating Lord's Day is on Sunday), could somebody help?

What comes to mind immediately are [bible]acts 20:7[/bible] and [bible] 1 Cor 16:1-2[/bible]

Another question, did God ask Adam, Noah, Abraham to honor Sabbath?
or just when Israelites left Egypt and journeying through the wilderness
the Lord commanded them to honor the Sabbath?

Well, they probably didn't. We know they didn't celebrate the feasts..

-----Added 12/18/2008 at 08:52:49 EST-----

Might also pay to check out "From Sabbath to Lord's Day: A Biblical, Historical and Theological Investigation", D.A. Carson, editor (Grand Rapids, Mich.: Zondervan, 1982).

 

[BobVigneault]

I can't believe this question has never come up before!


"Just kidding", Bawb said sardonically as he removed his shirt and thereby displaying the deep scars characteristic of a veteran of the Sabbath Wars of 2005. "I've no fight left in me", explained the old and tired soldier as he limped slowly away.

 

[greenbaggins]

I always think Lord's Day is on Sunday, but recently one brother asked
me to show him the explicit biblical support for this ( he means showing
a Bible verse stating Lord's Day is on Sunday), could somebody help?

What comes to mind immediately are [bible]acts 20:7[/bible] and [bible] 1 Cor 16:1-2[/bible]

Another question, did God ask Adam, Noah, Abraham to honor Sabbath?
or just when Israelites left Egypt and journeying through the wilderness
the Lord commanded them to honor the Sabbath?

Well, they probably didn't. We know they didn't celebrate the feasts..

-----Added 12/18/2008 at 08:52:49 EST-----

Might also pay to check out "From Sabbath to Lord's Day: A Biblical, Historical and Theological Investigation", D.A. Carson, editor (Grand Rapids, Mich.: Zondervan, 1982).

Unfortunately, the authors of this book are all committed to a profound discontinuity between Sabbath and Lord's Day. If you believe them, there is no continuity between them at all. Far, far better is Joey Pipa's book the Lord's Day.

Also important is Revelation 1:10, wherein the first day of the week is called the Lord's Day. Even in modern Greek today, the name for Sunday is still kuriake, which means "Lord's Day."

 

[toddpedlar]

I always think Lord's Day is on Sunday, but recently one brother asked
me to show him the explicit biblical support for this ( he means showing
a Bible verse stating Lord's Day is on Sunday), could somebody help?

What comes to mind immediately are [bible]acts 20:7[/bible] and [bible] 1 Cor 16:1-2[/bible]

Another question, did God ask Adam, Noah, Abraham to honor Sabbath?
or just when Israelites left Egypt and journeying through the wilderness
the Lord commanded them to honor the Sabbath?

Well, they probably didn't. We know they didn't celebrate the feasts..

-----Added 12/18/2008 at 08:52:49 EST-----

Might also pay to check out "From Sabbath to Lord's Day: A Biblical, Historical and Theological Investigation", D.A. Carson, editor (Grand Rapids, Mich.: Zondervan, 1982).

Unfortunately, the authors of this book are all committed to a profound discontinuity between Sabbath and Lord's Day. If you believe them, there is no continuity between them at all. Far, far better is Joey Pipa's book the Lord's Day.

Also important is Revelation 1:10, wherein the first day of the week is called the Lord's Day. Even in modern Greek today, the name for Sunday is still kuriake, which means "Lord's Day."

Should know better than to suggest offhand a title that I don't have or know anything about. Thanks for the better suggestion...

I would have suggested Rev. 1:10, although nowhere in chapter 1 is there direct mention of the Lord's Day being the first day of the week. What's said is that John was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day. I think rightly interpreted, this serves as a count in the evidence column, but it's hotly disputed by some and not as direct as one would like.

 

[Marrow Man]

Might also pay to check out "From Sabbath to Lord's Day: A Biblical, Historical and Theological Investigation", D.A. Carson, editor (Grand Rapids, Mich.: Zondervan, 1982).

Unfortunately, the authors of this book are all committed to a profound discontinuity between Sabbath and Lord's Day. If you believe them, there is no continuity between them at all. Far, far better is Joey Pipa's book the Lord's Day.

Should know better than to suggest offhand a title that I don't have or know anything about. Thanks for the better suggestion...

I actually know of a Reformed minister who reversed his views on the Christian Sabbath (i.e., abandoning the WCF view) after reading the Carson book (he even enthusiastically recommends it). When I tried to point him to Pipa's book, he just blew it off as it did not fit with his preconceived opinions about the subject.

It all honesty, he seems to be heavily influenced by the early church practice (as he sees it) with regard to Lord's Day/Sabbath. In a nutshell, he basically believes that since the early church didn't have a "puritanical view" of the Sabbath, then neither should we.

 

[TimV]

I'll throw out something that may not totally be a re-hash. The only Sabbath that regularly fell on our Sunday was the festival of the First Fruits.

Lev 23:1 The LORD spoke to Moses, saying,
Lev 23:2 "Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, These are the appointed feasts of the LORD that you shall proclaim as holy convocations; they are my appointed feasts.
Lev 23:3 "Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work. It is a Sabbath to the LORD in all your dwelling places.
Lev 23:4 "These are the appointed feasts of the LORD, the holy convocations, which you shall proclaim at the time appointed for them.
Lev 23:5 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at twilight, is the LORD's Passover.
Lev 23:6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the LORD; for seven days you shall eat unleavened bread.
Lev 23:7 On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall not do any ordinary work.
Lev 23:8 But you shall present a food offering to the LORD for seven days. On the seventh day is a holy convocation; you shall not do any ordinary work."
Lev 23:9 And the LORD spoke to Moses, saying,
Lev 23:10 "Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, When you come into the land that I give you and reap its harvest, you shall bring the sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest to the priest,
Lev 23:11 and he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, so that you may be accepted. On the day after the Sabbath the priest shall wave it

We know these are Spring festivals, celebrating new life because the original name for the first month is abib, which is the same word used in to describe the yellow, brittle stage just before the barley is harvested, and barley ripens earlier than wheat.

Exo 9:31 (The flax and the barley were struck down, for the barley was in the ear and the flax was in bud.
Exo 9:32 But the wheat and the emmer were not struck down, for they are late in coming up.)

So, (and if this is well developed somewhere, I would be grateful a reference) we have the Christ slain for His people, His people's sin cast out and on Sunday the first fruits are presented to God. Whether than is symbolic of Christ, or us, or both I'm not sure, but I think one is fair in making the observation that in the Old Testament a Sunday was singled out (otherwise why is the day so specifically ordained?) to point to a new order.

 

[BobVigneault]

Your friend is right, there is no explicit teaching in Scripture or of the apostles to warrant the change of the sabbath creation ordinance. There are, however, some very good implicit arguments, some long, some short, some complex and others....... well, others are complex as well. Happy reading.

 

[Contra_Mundum]

I think, if one accepts the idea that this meeting with God is HIS idea, and not OUR idea, then we quit asking for "this verse" or "that verse", and just ask the Bible to show us when and how God sets time aside for us to come to him.

Did God call the pre-Israelites to meet with him? Of course he did! He created the Sabbath "in the beginning." What? Did it just sit there unused? We don't read a verse that tells us that murder was prohibited from the beginning either, but we understand from the story of Cain and Abel that it was a horrible crime, and everyone knew it.

Marriage was to be between one man and one woman "from the beginning" according to Jesus. Everyone knew that adultery was wrong then, too, just from the revelation they had, not to mention multiple marriages. "But there's no verse..." Would the person with the question accept such reasoning to exonerate the adulterer and polygamist?

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, because Jesus is GOD. Jesus can change the DAY for the Christian Sabbath, because he's GOD. Jesus GOD calls his church together to meet with him. When did he meet with his saints after the Resurrection? Well, except for the Ascension, any time the Bible gives us the day of meeting it says it was the "first day." And when we look for examples of the church meeting for regular worship and business, as the verses already highlighted say, it's also the first day.

What other Day does the Bible assign to Jesus, other than the Sabbath? It even uses the same term, "Lord" (Lord of the Sabbath, Lord's Day). So, really the only question is "has Jesus changed the Day when he wishes to meet with his people?" What does the Bible give us by way of example?

 

[BobVigneault]

I guess we'll just have to introduce and settle on a new argument - the not quite explicit argument from scripture or... the mesoplicit argument.

 

[JM]

I read Pipa and found he wasn't convincing.

 

[lynnie]

Do we even really know the exact days anymore? For all we know the true Sabbath could be a Wednesday or Thursday.

I happen to believe that there are some things that are part of the natural order of creation long before the Law of Moses...male headship, tithes (Abraham paid them), a sabbath rest, a blood sacrifice to please God (Abel vs Cain). So I do believe in honoring a day a week to devote to the Lord, the same way I tithe, and submit to hub/elders and put my trust in the blood sacrifice to please God. But I've seen enough wrangling about calendars and dates out there by the messianic believer types to think that we can't know anymore which day is the Sabbath anyway. Perhaps that is good; we can keep our focus on the Lord! You want to take Wednesday off, well, go right ahead!

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Astronomy Answers: Modern Calendars

The Gregorian calendar is a modified version of the Julian calendar. Modification was necessary because the average length of the Julian calendar year, 365 1/4 day, was about 11 minutes too long compared to the March equinox year so that the vernal equinox (the beginning of spring in the northern hemisphere) moved backwards through the calendar year by about one day per 131 years. When the Julian calendar was introduced, in −44, the vernal equinox fell around 25 March. At the time of the Council of Nicaea in 325 the vernal equinox had shifted to 21 March, and the rules for determining the date of Easter were based on that date. Around 1500 the vernal equinox had shifted further back to about 11 March. For this and other reasons, Pope Gregory XIII proclaimed the new calendar rules that define what we now call the Gregorian calendar.

To make the calendar year follow the return of the vernal equinox more closely, the last two leap year rules listed above were promulgated. To get the vernal equinox back to 21 March, the Pope decreed that the day following 4 October 1582 be called 15 October 1582, thereby skipping 10 days of the calendar.

The Gregorian calendar reform was adopted quickly in the Catholic regions of the world (of which the Pope was the religious leader), but there was a lot of resistance to the reform in Protestant areas. Many Protestant areas started using the Gregorian calendar around 1700. Great Britain and its possessions followed in 1752, and Russia in 1918.

It is clear that the gradual acceptance of the Gregorian calendar causes no end of problems in accurately dating dates from the period. A date in 1612, for example, is probably on the Gregorian calendar if it occurs on a letter sent from a Catholic country, but probably on the Julian calendar if it is on a letter sent from a Protestant country.
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Also, the Jews had to figure out when to add a 13th month to the calendar according to when the barley ripened. That practice stopped a long time ago. Even if we tried to go back to the OT calendar we would not ever know how to figure the dates properly unless we had a agricultural record of the barley ripening every spring.

 

[JOwen]

For some, Sabbath keeping is taken to mean Saturday, rather than a day of rest. The word "Sabbath" in the Hebrew and Greek does not mean "Saturday", but "rest".

Yet the New Testament demonstrates that the Sabbath for the Christian was changed from the last day of the week, to the first day of the week. Remember that when Christ rebuked the Pharisees, He stated, "The Son of man is Lord even of the Sabbath", obviously asserting such complete authority over the Sabbath that He could change it.
Two things to remember. Exigetically the term "Sabbath" is used for more than just the seventh day of the week. It also refers to:
1) special days within an appointed festival,
2) the seventh year of a seven year cycle,
3) the Jubilee year (50th year at the end of a 49 year cycle).
The general term "Sabbath" meant a God-designated time of rest, a cessation of regular work.
Therefore we believe that because Jesus rose from the dead on the first day of the week, the New Sabbath (Rest) is on Sunday. This is clearly taught in scripture as posted already.

 

[Contra_Mundum]

As a matter of fact we DON'T know whether the day we are all accepting is an exact multiple of "7" off the first seven days. It probably isn't.

The question isn't whether the "day" is right on a schedule, but whether we should be keeping the FIRST day (or some other day) of OUR week unto the Lord. It doesn't even matter what other folks do; what should WE do?

Providence has made the whole world keep a "Christian week," so we don't even need to worry about one country keeping yesterday as the first, and another country keeping tomorrow as first.

 

[AThornquist]

Quite honestly, from the counsel I have received on this topic, I don't find any side to be convincing. Ugh, is Saturday the Sabbath, or is Sunday the Sabbath, or is Saturday the Sabbath and Sunday the Lord's Day, etc. Truly, does it matter? Do Romans 14, Galatians 4:10, and Colossians 2:16-17 mean that the Sabbath is no longer binding, though it would still be wise to take breaks from work every week?
Oy vey

-----Added 12/18/2008 at 01:58:00 EST-----

This has been frustrating me for a while since my step-dad's side of the family is largely SDA, my dad holds that Sunday is the Sabbath, other whom I respect greatly feel that any day of the week is fine and to think that one particular day is binding such as in OT times is forgetting the freedom from the law that Christ gives, etc.

 

[JohnOwen007]

In actual fact we can't say infallibly that the "Lord's Day" is Sunday from the Rev. 1:10 itself. However, when we get to the apostolic fathers they use the phrase "Lord's Day" to mean Sunday--the reason most often given because that was the day on which Christ rose. Hence, they spoke of it regularly as the "8th day". Some of them then hunted out all the occurrences of 8th day rites in the Torah as types of the new creation. Hence, circumcision on the 8th day was seen as a type of the new creation. Painfully interesting!