Love the Sinner
- Thread starter jbergsing
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Once again it all boils down to your definition of 'love'. It would be so much easier if everyone just stuck to scripture.
historyb
Inactive User
I heard this many times, I am a self professed newbie at Reformed Christianity. So is this right or wrong?
ajrock2000
Puritan Board Freshman
Some scripture:
For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee. The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. - Psalms 5:4-5
The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth. - Psalms 11:5
I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob, And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness. - Malachi 1:2-3
Kevin
Puritan Board Doctor
I was going to say read Psalm 5 & 11, but someone beat me to it.
The definition of "love" is really the issue in my opinion. In the epistles of John love is defined as action, not emotion. I.E. keepining the law of God toward someone is "loving" them thus we do "love" an evildoer/sinner if we behave "lawfully/lovingly" toward them.
The definition of "love" is really the issue in my opinion. In the epistles of John love is defined as action, not emotion. I.E. keepining the law of God toward someone is "loving" them thus we do "love" an evildoer/sinner if we behave "lawfully/lovingly" toward them.
We all know what kind of love is being described in this phrase by those who use it.
It usually means, "Don't judge" or "Church discipline is bad" or "Its OK to have mercy on the unrepentant sinner even if God is trying to chastise them" etc. etc.
We Can ALSO Love And Hate
I'm not sure if we need to define the word love here...
"Love the sinner, hate the sin." Isn't that exactly what Jesus did (and does)?
He was constantly being accused of hangin' with the wrong crowd, loving sinners. Surely he didn't condone their behavior...
So, is it tolerance and non-judgementalism or is it simply following in Jesus' footsteps?
I'm not sure if we need to define the word love here...
"Love the sinner, hate the sin." Isn't that exactly what Jesus did (and does)?
He was constantly being accused of hangin' with the wrong crowd, loving sinners. Surely he didn't condone their behavior...
So, is it tolerance and non-judgementalism or is it simply following in Jesus' footsteps?
ajrock2000
Puritan Board Freshman
I think Jesus sitting with sinners is just to teach us how to treat people who are in sin around us. To love them and desire them to be saved as Christ loved us and saved us. We are to love them (not a worldly, all accepting kind of love), but a love to tell them the gospel (with our lips and deeds) to desire to have them know Christ and be set free. When we are talking about Jesus loving unto salvation, he loves some and hates others (saves or leaves to perish).
I think another distinction is how we define sinners and being lost.
Luke 19:10
"For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost."
This is not saying He came to save everyone, it is saying He came to save those who feel themselves to be a lost, miserable sinner (only those who are quickened and are first loved by Christ).
1 Timothy 1:15
"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief."
Again, sinners are those who God will set free from the bondage of sin and will be broken and feel themselves to be 'the chief of sinners'.
Jesus does not love the disobedient, wicked sinner, as there are many verses to conclude this.
Romans 8:35,37-39
"Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord."
The love being spoken about here is for the elect. This surely is not the same love for the rebellious sinner, as death awaits all those who are not in Christ.
I think that D. A. Carson does a fine job in describing the love of God in his book "The difficult doctrine of the love of God." In it, he describes the love of God as being presented in the Scriptures under 5 headings:
The relationship between the Father and the Son
God's benevolent love towards Creation
God's salvific stance toward the world
God's special love for the elect
The aspect of conditional love between those in relationship with God
In considering the height, depth, and breadth of God's love we wish to make sure that we do not theologically limit the extent of God's loving kindness. The Arminian fails to recognize God's particular love for His elect. The universalist refuses to grapple with God's hatred toward sin and fallen men. The hyper-Calvinist refuses to acknowledge God's stance toward the world.
I believe it was A.H. Strong in his systematic that remarked that "God both loves and hates the sinner." I think this honestly answers the question.
The relationship between the Father and the Son
God's benevolent love towards Creation
God's salvific stance toward the world
God's special love for the elect
The aspect of conditional love between those in relationship with God
In considering the height, depth, and breadth of God's love we wish to make sure that we do not theologically limit the extent of God's loving kindness. The Arminian fails to recognize God's particular love for His elect. The universalist refuses to grapple with God's hatred toward sin and fallen men. The hyper-Calvinist refuses to acknowledge God's stance toward the world.
I believe it was A.H. Strong in his systematic that remarked that "God both loves and hates the sinner." I think this honestly answers the question.
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