ReformedWretch
Puritan Board Doctor
SOmeone is arguing with me that Hitler used Luters plan to eliminate the Jews?!
Ever hear that one before? I haven't.
Ever hear that one before? I haven't.
Luther and HITLER?
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ReformedWretch
Puritan Board Doctor
Catholics for the most part, but I think an evangelical said this.
ReformedWretch
Puritan Board Doctor
If you are intrested in helping me out the thread is here.
http://fresh-hope.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20792&highlight=
Scroll to the bottom
http://fresh-hope.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20792&highlight=
Scroll to the bottom
ReformedWretch
Puritan Board Doctor
The entire Apologetic forum is here.
http://fresh-hope.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=37
If you get bored, join me! It can be fun (in a way and sad in another)
http://fresh-hope.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=37
If you get bored, join me! It can be fun (in a way and sad in another)
ReformedWretch
Puritan Board Doctor
Here is his response;
Quotes from Martin Luther, On the Jews and Their Lies, 1543
""We are at fault for not slaying them [the Jews]."
"Accordingly, it must and dare not be considered a trifling matter but a most serious one to seek counsel against this and to save our souls from the Jews, that is, from the devil and from eternal death. My advice, as I said earlier, is:
First, that their synagogues be burned down, and that all who are able toss sulphur and pitch; it would be good if someone could also throw in some hellfire...
Second, that all their books-their prayer books, their Talmudic writings, also the entire Bible-be taken from them, not leaving them one leaf, and that these be preserved for those who may be converted...
Third, that they be forbidden on pain of death to praise God, to give thanks, to pray, and to teach publicly among us and in our country...
Fourth, that they be forbidden to utter the name of God within our hearing. For we cannot with a good conscience listen to this or tolerate it..."
Here are some sources from the Internet.
http://www.nobeliefs.com/luther.htm
http://www.geocities.com/saifrahmanuk/luth1.html
http://www.awitness.org/books/luther/ This is "On Jews and Their Lies"
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/MartinLuther-HitlersSpiritualAncestor.html
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0449219771/freethinkers/103-9130793-6992611 "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" has more in detail. But I can't find in on the Internet. It's one of the best books ever written on Hitler.
Quotes from Martin Luther, On the Jews and Their Lies, 1543
""We are at fault for not slaying them [the Jews]."
"Accordingly, it must and dare not be considered a trifling matter but a most serious one to seek counsel against this and to save our souls from the Jews, that is, from the devil and from eternal death. My advice, as I said earlier, is:
First, that their synagogues be burned down, and that all who are able toss sulphur and pitch; it would be good if someone could also throw in some hellfire...
Second, that all their books-their prayer books, their Talmudic writings, also the entire Bible-be taken from them, not leaving them one leaf, and that these be preserved for those who may be converted...
Third, that they be forbidden on pain of death to praise God, to give thanks, to pray, and to teach publicly among us and in our country...
Fourth, that they be forbidden to utter the name of God within our hearing. For we cannot with a good conscience listen to this or tolerate it..."
Here are some sources from the Internet.
http://www.nobeliefs.com/luther.htm
http://www.geocities.com/saifrahmanuk/luth1.html
http://www.awitness.org/books/luther/ This is "On Jews and Their Lies"
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/MartinLuther-HitlersSpiritualAncestor.html
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0449219771/freethinkers/103-9130793-6992611 "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" has more in detail. But I can't find in on the Internet. It's one of the best books ever written on Hitler.
Luther was very anti-Semetic plain and simple. Many of the Reformers held to similar beliefs as Catholics on non-essencials plain and simple. However on the flip side of the coin:
1. No protestant belives Luther had perfect doctrine. He was a first generation Reformer and therefore it makes sense that he wouldn't have everything perfect right in the beginning.
2. I'm sure with a little research you could find Catholic teachers, likely even Popes, that were very anti-semetic. His views on this subject were wrong, but you need to point out that you can't condem his whole theology becasue of it. It's a Non-Sequitur.
Bryan
SDG
1. No protestant belives Luther had perfect doctrine. He was a first generation Reformer and therefore it makes sense that he wouldn't have everything perfect right in the beginning.
2. I'm sure with a little research you could find Catholic teachers, likely even Popes, that were very anti-semetic. His views on this subject were wrong, but you need to point out that you can't condem his whole theology becasue of it. It's a Non-Sequitur.
Bryan
SDG
Abd_Yesua_alMasih
Puritan Board Junior
According to my religious studies lecturer (but i have no sources apart from that - but I have not really looked) Luther only started to hate Jews near the end of his life.
Abd_Yesua_alMasih
Puritan Board Junior
[quote:f821d45f27="Craig"]I think you're right...honestly, from what I've read from Bainton and heard from Sproul, Luther expected the Jews to convert to Christianity with the "unearthing" of sola gratia...when they didn't convert, he became anti semetic.[/quote:f821d45f27]That is what I was told - my lecturer said Luther thought the Jews had not carried out 'their part of the bargain' (what ever than means - I am sure they didnt know they were supposed to convert)
FrozenChosen
Puritan Board Freshman
Hitler borrowed his views of the Jews from the papacy, not Luther.
Remember, the papacy created a ghetto in Rome, said that because the Jews killed Christ they should be slaves, and made them wear yellow caps for identification. Also, Jews were prohibited from owning land.
Gotta love Paul IV!
Remember, the papacy created a ghetto in Rome, said that because the Jews killed Christ they should be slaves, and made them wear yellow caps for identification. Also, Jews were prohibited from owning land.
Gotta love Paul IV!
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